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List of Former Flag carriers?

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Has anybody considered the possibility of adding a list of former flag carriers from every country. Nombreungenio (talk) 05:01, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is a fine idea, either as a separate table within this article or as another, linked article. 2600:1004:B109:BB50:C83B:65DE:7249:2B60 (talk) 18:54, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Missing information

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How about the flag carriers for the United States, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and East Timor? None? Kenwick (talk) 05:05, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How about adding them with proper sources if you have any?--Jetstreamer Talk 17:43, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not all countries have a flag carrier, even ones listed here are really just nationalised airlines rather than flag carriers.

MilborneOne (talk) 18:40, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pan American World Airways was for much of its existence at least the unofficial USA flag carrier. For decades it was the only US-based airline to operate internationally and for that reason received what were (for the era) large governmental subsidies (as other US domestic airlines did and do to serve "underserved" areas of the country). This would merit mention in the above-requested "Former flag carries" article when/if such is created. 2600:1004:B109:BB50:C83B:65DE:7249:2B60 (talk) 18:59, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Where are the sources that support your claims?--Jetstreamer Talk 00:55, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Talk: Flag carrier (Latam for Brazil?)

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Dear sir or madam, According to[1], Latam Brazil is the flag carrier of Brazil, is this accurate? PatrickChiao (talk) 05:29, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the source says so.--Jetstreamer Talk 12:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It does not seem accurate. Nowhere does LATAM Airlines Brasil claim to be Brazil's flag carrier. Their website's about page makes no mention of them being of flag carrier status. Furthermore, Azul Brazilian Airlines has an aircraft that reads "Brasil's [sic] Flag Carrier" on its fuselage, the only available source of an operational Brazilian airline claiming flag carrier status. Even in Azul's case, it is an unofficial claim, as the Brazilian government has not offered preferential status to any airline since the end of the military regime in the 1980s.[2] I suggest reevaluating the reliability of the source provided in the article, as it gives no basis for its claim. In any case, there is only one operational Brazilian airline claiming to be a flag carrier (Azul), and it is not LATAM Airlines Brasil. 2603:8001:B300:F0:F56C:DBD4:CB7C:A03B (talk) 20:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.routesonline.com/airlines/4598/latam-brasil/#:~:text=Introduction%20to%20LATAM%20Brasil,Rio%2C%20Sao%20Paulo%20and%20Brasilia.
  2. ^ Beting, Gianfranco; Beting, Joelmir (2009). Varig: Eterna Pioneira (in Portuguese). Porto Alegre and São Paulo: EDIPUCRS and Beting Books. pp. 192–194. ISBN 978-85-7430-901-9.

Brazil hasn't a flag carrier. This isn't a valid source, it didn't show any solid info on why the company should be classified as a "flag carrier". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hesteriana (talk • contribs) 06:11, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Virgin australia is no longer flag carrier but is just a regional airline because of ditching wide-body aircrafts and long-haul loute.

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Certainly, Virgin WAS flag carrier as in that source published in 2014 because there was international routes and wide-body aircrafts along Qantas, but due to COVID 19, Ditching all of long haul routes and wide body aircrafts, that makes Virgin is no longer flag carrier, but is just a regional airlines. Moreover, another articles in 2020 says Qantas is only flag carrier. It seems that Virgin Australia should be removed!(https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/national-carrier-it-s-a-matter-of-definition-20140305-ixnl4)(https://paxex.aero/virgin-australia-to-ditch-twin-aisle-fleet-focus-on-domestic-and-regional-service/)(https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2020/11/19/virgin-australia-relaunches-as-mid-market-hybrid-airline/) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Social25062 (talk • contribs) 03:15, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I already commented on this at your talk page.--Jetstreamer Talk 11:53, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jetstreamer's supported source about Virgin Australia as Flag Carrier is obsolete.

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I'll finally say you that "Virgin Australia is Flag Carrier" is obsolete, because your source was about SIX YEARS OLD SITUATION in 2014(https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/national-carrier-it-s-a-matter-of-definition-20140305-ixnl4), still with wide body and long haul!!! Today in 2021, this airlines company is no longer flag carrier, and doesn't seem to recover as flag carrier, because of losing long haul and wide body aircraft. Moreover, the distance between Qantas are expanded. So, you should mend Australia's section in order to adapt current situation in 2021!!! Social25062 (talk) 5:53, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I replied to this at your talk. Please stop with this.--Jetstreamer Talk 11:46, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that Virgin Australia is no longer flag carrier unlike 2014's source.

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Qantas' fleet

Qantas fleet
Aircraft In service Orders Passengers Notes
F J W Y
Total
Airbus A330-200 8 — — 27 — 224 251[1]
10 — 28 — 243 271[2]
Airbus A330-300 10 — — 28 — 269 297[3]
Airbus A380-800 6 — 14 64 35 371 484[4] Were to be refurbished to 485-seat configuration by the end of 2020.[5]
To be mothballed until 2023[6]
6 14 70 60 341 485[7] Refurbished with new Business and Premium Economy cabins.[8]To be mothballed until 2023[6]
Boeing 737-800 75 — — 12 — 162 174[9]
Boeing 787-9 11 3[10][11] — 42 28 166 236[12] Original order for eight with 15 options and 30 purchase rights.[10][13]
Six additional aircraft ordered in May 2018.[11] 3 on order deferred and stored.[6][14]
Total 126 3

Virgin's fleet

Virgin Australia fleet
Aircraft In Service Orders Passengers Notes
J W Y Total
Boeing 737-700 2 — 8 — 120 128
Boeing 737-800 57 — 8 — 168 176
Boeing 737 MAX 10 — 25 8 — 196 204 Planned to be delivered from mid-2023.
Total 59 25

Very different! Do you think even Virgin is flag carrier as Qantas?

As of 2014, Virgin had wide-body aircraft and long-haul routes, but now ditched.

Virgin Australia former fleet
Aircraft Total Introduced Retired Notes
Airbus A330-200 8 2011 2020 2 transferred to Azul Brazilian Airlines
Boeing 777-300ER[15] 5 2011 2020

References

  1. ^ "Airbus 330-200 Seat Map for Configuration: 27 Business; 224 Economy – International" (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF) on 5 July 2018. Retrieved 4 July 2018.
  2. ^ "Airbus 330-200 Seat Map for Configuration: 28 Business; 243 Economy – Domestic" (PDF). 2015. Retrieved 1 January 2015.
  3. ^ "Airbus 330-300 Seat Map for Configuration: 28 Business; 269 Economy – International" (PDF). 2015. Retrieved 7 June 2015.
  4. ^ "Airbus 380 Seat Map for Configuration: 14 First; 64 Business; 35 Premium Economy; 371 Economy" (PDF). 2019. Retrieved 1 October 2019.
  5. ^ Flynn, David. "Qantas to upgrade A380 business class seats to new Business Suites". Australian Business Traveller. Retrieved 29 August 2018.
  6. ^ a b c "QANTAS GROUP ANNOUNCES POST-COVID RECOVERY PLAN AND EQUITY RAISING FOR A STRONGER FUTURE". Qantas News Room. Retrieved 2020-06-26.
  7. ^ "Airbus A380-800 seat map - 14 First, 70 Business, 60 Premium Economy and 341 Economy" (PDF). Qantas. Retrieved 1 October 2019.
  8. ^ Stewart, Sammy (1 October 2019). "Inside Qantas' newly refurbished A380". News.com.au.
  9. ^ "Boeing 737-800 Seat Map for Configuration: 12 Business; 162 Economy -" (PDF). 2016. Retrieved 4 February 2016.
  10. ^ a b Frawley, Gerald (17 October 2017). "'Great Southern Land' – first Qantas 787 formally revealed". Australian Aviation. Phantom Media. Retrieved 18 October 2017.
  11. ^ a b "Qantas Orders More Dreamliners, Sets Date to Farewell Jumbos" (Press release). Qantas. 2 May 2018. Retrieved 2 May 2018.
  12. ^ "Boeing 787-9 Seat Map for Configuration: 42 Business; 28 Premium Economy; 166 Economy" (PDF). 2018. Retrieved 28 March 2018.
  13. ^ "Qantas orders Dreamliners, announces shareholder return and posts return to profitability". Australian Aviation. Phantom Media. 20 August 2015. Retrieved 20 August 2015.
  14. ^ "Why Qantas Has Put A White Tail 787 Straight Into Storage". simpleflying.com. 17 November 2020. Retrieved 18 November 2020.
  15. ^ https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-airbus-a330-boeing-777
Being a flag carrier has nothing to do with the strength of the fleet.--Jetstreamer Talk 11:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Virgin Australia's circumstances was alternated, different from supporting source in 2014.

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Section started by sock. Only reply was in response to the sock's comment. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 14:39, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


I'd like to support parts of Social25062's opinion. As Jetstreamer's source in 2014, "National carrier status gives both airlines a lucrative asset on their books: the right to access flight routes in other countries in return for other airlines getting access to Australian routes.". So, Virgin Australia WAS definitely flag carrier, AT THAT TIME, when international route was still exist. But its circumstances alternated! Due to Covid 19, Virgin Australia forced to ditch wide-body and international route. Without international route unlike Qantas, Virgin shrank into just a regional airline. That makes Virgin different from that definition of National carrier. So it seems that Australian flag carrier is only Qantas. If Virgin resumes international flight along Qantas, you can revert Virgin.

Until Virgin resumes its international flights, you should temporally edit as below.

 Australia Qantas None State-owned until 1992.

--YouTriple25062 (talk) 4:18, 2 February 2021 (UTC) sock comment. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 14:39, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

International routes and wide-body aircraft don't necessarily have an affect on flag carrier "status". Indian Airlines never served any long haul destinations and apart from the A300's in the 1990's and early 2000's never had any wide-body/long haul aircraft. Also, isn't it interesting that the first edit User:YouTriple25062 makes is to this talk page on this topic? a few days after User:Social25062 is blocked and both of them have similar usernames. Bingobro (Chat) 09:01, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How about Caribbean Airlines' integration?

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There are two flag carriers owned by multiple countries in this article; SAS and Caribbean airlines. While SAS is integrated in single row span, Caribbean is separated into each countries' section; Guyana, Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago! So how about integration of Caribbean as SAS!? 2400:4050:2501:EC00:24C1:5199:5085:69D2(talk) 13:53, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done [1]--Jetstreamer Talk 19:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ANA

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Just wanna check whether All Nippon Airways is a flag carrier of Japan. I know the JAL consensus is that it is a flag carrier, but ANA also has the Japanese flag displayed on its planes. Also I didn’t find any sources that can say for certain whether ANA is or is not an flag carrier & the Japanese version of this article states “全日本空輸” (ANA) as the sole flag carrier. Got a bit confused so wanna clarify here. SBS6577P (talk) 12:39, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the confusion. Japan Airlines is raising the national flag because they do not want to admit that they lost to All Nippon Airways. Aviation fans are chilling. 仲川怜汰 (talk) 09:39, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2022

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Japan is displayed as Japan Airlines, but ANA is actually the representative of Japan. Therefore, I would like to ask you to change from Japan Airlines to All Nippon Airways.I don't mean to be mean, but since Japan Airlines went bankrupt due to the Lehman shock, I want to trust ANA as a Japanese person. In Japanese, Japan is called "Nippon". The Himalayas are called "Chomolungma" in the local language, and as a Japanese person, "All Nippon Airways" feels more secure.Speaking of Japanese airlines, Japan Airlines tends to be the representative, but for Japanese, All Nippon Airways is the representative. However, the world is in chaos because people who like Japan Airlines try to represent Japan Airlines. Please correct me If you look at the UK ratings, you can see that All Nippon Airways is in the lead in almost every rating. All Nippon Airways has the most sales, so I don't think I can complain.Sorry for the long sentence. There are only a few left this year. Enjoy not only Christmas, but also 2022! ! May you find more happiness. 仲川怜汰 (talk) 09:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Where are your sources?--Jetstreamer Talk 11:53, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 12:13, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

More archived references no longer used in the article

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--Jetstreamer Talk 20:36, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flag carrier definition

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Someone has pointed out on the Cathay Pacific talk page, that they think Cathay Pacific shouldn't be considered a flag carrier because Hong Kong isn't considered a sovereign state. The lede in this article states that a flag carrier is one that is locally registered in a given sovereign state, enjoys preferential rights or privileges accorded by the government for international operations. Probably the definition might need a bit of tweaking to include flag carriers of non-sovereign states/regions/territories/whatever such as Cathay Pacific, Air Greenland, Air Macau, etc. Fork99 (talk) 09:20, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal: Chosen instrument

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Proposing to merge Chosen instrument into Flag carrier: based on Google search results, "chosen instrument" is an archaic term for an airline (specifically back in the 1930's, Pan Am and Imperial Airways) chosen by a government to become what we now refer to as a "flag carrier" with government subsidies and favorable legal treatment (i.e., National champions). Topic merits historical consideration but current article is merely a Wiktionary redirect. Wl219 (talk) 17:18, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No such article in Wikipedia.--Jetstreamer Talk 12:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was, before this happened... https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chosen_instrument&diff=next&oldid=1170065776 Wl219 (talk) 02:19, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't that just a simple redirect? The old article's content is a sentence and a half. Juxlos (talk) 03:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose; there's no evidence that this is a special term in this field, just a natural language description of an instrument that is chosen. For example, NIV Acts 9:15-16, where Saul is described as a chosen instrument. It's better to leave the redirect to Wikionary and fix it at that site. Klbrain (talk) 17:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
Klbrain (talk) 23:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mexicana de Aviación

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Mexicana de Aviación should be added, as it is owned and operated by the Mexican Military.

[2]https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mexico-launches-military-run-airline-with-48-mln-purchase-mexicana-brand-2023-08-10/

[3]https://mexico-now.com/mexicana-de-aviacion-starts-operations/ DaGooose (talk) 08:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No flag carrier status mentioned in these two articles.--Jetstreamer Talk 12:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Countries without flag carriers

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It might be useful to add this to the article as well to add more information, please consider it, Thank You! MarcChess (talk) 10:45, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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