Talk:Feyli Kurds

Unobjective and tendentious edits

The issue of feylis etymological ethnical identity is unresolved. Iranian wiki members such as "علی ساکی لرستانی" have engaged in full scale editing and publishing obviously tendentious sources on this article. If the origin of feylis is contested, it is unreasonable to edit entire articles and break wikipedias objectivity standards to suit your own POV. Here by any edits to this article that do not follow wikipedias directives, without the consent of the consensus on the talk page of this article, is subject removal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.150.236.238 (talk) 13:04, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
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Throughout the years, I have added a lot of information to the "Feyli-page", I am a Feyli myself, I just want to mention that Feylis are Kurds, and it is insane how one person has edited the word "Kurds" to "Lurs" on the entire page, even in the part where I cited a renowned scholar "Joost Hiltermann". That person also edited the URL of the source The Guardian from "Kurds" to "Lurs", and now that link doesn't work. This is nothing but vandalism and should be fixed, I hope an experienced user will restore the page. Thanks. Avicenna1985 (talk) 18:03, 19 December 2013 (UTC) __________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I removed all fallacious references to lurs.

5.150.236.238 (talk) 18:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Untitled

I remember reading the Faylis were Lors and not Kurds, as the language they speak is Luri. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.4.193.124 (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure this is correct. The article Luri language mentions that Luri is part of the Southwestern Iranian launguages group whereas the Kurdish language is part of the Northwestern Iranian launguages group See also. This indicates that the Luris live exclusively in Iran whereas I have heard of significant Fayli communities in Iraq.

This article doesn't mention the language of Fayli, and could very well be Luri. As stated earlier, I have come across source stating the Faylis are Lors who identify as Kurds in Iraq for lack of a closer ethnic group, unlike Iran. I remember reading the Faylis were Lori pilgrims to the Shia holy sites in Iraq and ended up settling in Iraq.

That doesn't make any sense since half of the Feylis live in Iran, and they also happen to identify themselves as Kurds. Their dialects are just like the dialects spoken by other Kurdish tribes in the area. There are even Kurdish tribes there who are also Shia and speak the exact same dialect but who do not consider themselves Feyli. Feyli Kurds are an heterogeneous group and there isn't really anything that differs them from other Kurds.

See the write up here [1] for more information. AndrewRT - Talk 20:10, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

No, Feyli kurd are kurds. I am an Feyli kurd, an beleive me, i know

As an Englishman I'm forced to rely on others to inform me! Ater some quick research on the internet I found this article [2] which says:

The Faili (Fayli or Pahli) Kurds are an integral part of the great Kurdish people and they speak the Kurdish language in the Laurie and Laki (dialect) accent

Of course that doesn't mean there weren't also some Lors who emigrated at the same time and ended up being lumped together with the Kurdish-speaking Faylis. AndrewRT - Talk 15:59, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Feylî

Feylî it´s a dialect of Laki language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.48.18.154 (talk) 15:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Pehlí

The kurdish name is Pehlí (or Pahlí), Feylí (or Faylí) is the arabic form of the name. We have the same case when it comes to the persians, the original Pars and the arabized Fars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.211.101.220 (talk) 23:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Feylis Are Kurds

Besides all ethnic facts that People of ME know it better than any one else, the Language of Feyli Kurds exactly is a sub-dialect of southern Kurdish. Also some Feyli Kurds speak Leki dialect too (around Ilam) as well as some speak Sorani. (78.38.22.96 (talk) 14:55, 6 November 2008 (UTC)).

i am feyli too. and i speak sorani too. so i zhave to say we are kurds, like thze luri. i am luri kichzouk, little luri ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.141.189.100 (talk) 11:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Feylis are Lurs

We are not talkinmg about feylis who are bilingual in other languages as well. Feylis speak Luri. Their language is intelligible with Western dialects of Persian and Luri, much more than Laki. In all historical accounts they are mentioned as Lurs. I do not speak much of Kurdish but I speak Luri and the Feyli language was intelligible for me. It was also to a high extent intelligible for Tehrani Persian speakers --Babakexorramdin (talk) 21:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't mean anything. Feyli kurdish is also mutually intelligble with sorani. There is alot of cognates. Also feyli kurds are genetically closely related to Sorani Kurds and other southern kurds, than they are to persians. This is confirmed by autosmal wide genetic testing. 5.150.236.238 (talk) 13:51, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.se/2012/06/kurdish-autosomal-dna-based-on-dodecad.html

Feyli's kurdish belong to the southern kurdish branch of languages and not the Lur branch. Due to historical misunderstandings it has been classified under Lur but there is consensus in recent research literature that the language belong under the kurdish branch. See for example this research paper from 2014 where this is explicitly stated: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00210862.2014.913423 . Furthermore the first line of this article claims that Feyli's are Lurs and the reference is about the Lur tribe called feyli. There does exist a Lur tribe called Feyli, but they are not the same as Feyli kurds (which live in Ilam, Khanaqin etc). These two must not be confused together. This common confusion is also mentioned in the above mentioned research paper.

-Heidar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.54.222.12 (talk) 18:37, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

feylis were,are, also lurs

in the historical sources like Iranica , dehkhoda , feyli nation site ( puk ) , tarikh gozideh , alamut Itinerary , geroteh Itinerary , Anthropology of Iran ,... says that the lessor lurs are feyli.in many other sources , say that feyli are lurs.i am not feyli , but my father is a feyli and mention his families in Iraq.he also says that feylis are lurs.because of this mistake , people says feyli kurd:

In some sources, Lurs, and Baluchis and other people except his Dylyman Shmrdhand the word "kurd" implies a kind of lifestyle and has no linguistic meaning--علی ساکی لرستانی (talk) 14:49, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Feylis Page locked

Well, I hope you are happy now, "Ali Lurestani علی ساکی لرستانی", the Feylis-page is locked and no one can edit it anymore. Why do you have to change every single word of "Kurd" to "Lur"? This is insane behavior on your part. I'll give you one example: I cited the article of Joost Hiltermann and in his article he clearly says Feyli KURDS, now why do you have to change Kurds to Lurs? See below for the citation that I am referring to.

Joost Hiltermann points to the old Safavid–Ottoman struggle, as the leadership of each country used religious references to characterize themselves, their enemies and their battles, unfailingly casting these in sectarian terms. One group of victims of this practice were Feyli >>>LURS<<< — Preceding unsigned comment added by Avicenna1985 (talk • contribs) 13:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Moved from top of page to bottom of page for good ordering and forthcoming relevant comments. Poepkop (talk) 19:34, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

It seems there is - and not just here but also on the web in general and amongst academics - a lot of confusion about what Feyli people now 'really' are, be they Kurdish, or Luri/Lurs (For a forum discusion see e.g. [3])? This seems the cause for the recent (or rather since October 2013 at least) edit warring. I do not think I can solve this question, but, no one has to: in accordance with WP's policy on neutrality, an article should present all/the different views on a topic to reduce bias.

Some abbreviations: Feyli Kurds = FK; Feyli Lurs = FL; Encyclopedia Iranica Online = EIO; majority Iranian people = Persians. Note that Persians are mostly shiites as are most Feylis; Kurds are mostly sunnites. That is one difference between Feylis and (if applicable: other) Kurds. Feylis live mainly across the Iran/Iraq border region on both sides of the border.

Adding to the confusion is that apparently Persians refer to Feylis as Luri/Lurs (another tribe/people in Iran). This may be done habitually by Persians, who seem to reserve the word "Kurd" only for sunnite Kurds [4] (German). An example of this seems to be the EIO, which is actually a US-funded/organised project. The EIO entry for Feyli states they are Lurs [5], the term Kurd is not used at all in that article; there is another entry in the EIO with a list of Kurdish tribes here [6] where the word Feyli is, indeed, absent.

Now that would be the view of many Persians. But then how do Feylis speak of themselves? Primarily as Kurds or as Lurs? Googling "Feyli Kurds" versus "Feyli Lurs" and "Feyli Luri" (including the quotation marks for the exact string), the number of returns is about 15,700 versus 124 (Lurs) plus 440 (Luri), respectively. These numbers can differ mildly depending on your geographical location or the day. Apparently the term Feyli Kurd seems to be the commonly preferred term to refer to Feylis (even though, for whatever ethnographical, linguistic, anthropological, historical or whatever academic data, it might be utterly wrong). Feylis who are emphasising their Kurdishness are all around on the web, e.g. [7], [8], [9], [10]. It seems that Feyli Kurd is by far the common denominator, also used by various official entities like Australia's Immigration Service [11], the US State Department [12] or AI [13]. To me, if people identify themselves in today's world as FKs, who am I to call them differently? Perhaps not all Feyli do. But to me it appears from the Google result that the number of Feyli that call themselves FL would be much smaller than the number of people calling themselves FK. Maybe scientifically incorrect, but apparently they do. Of course, I do not know the exact numbers.

It appears to me, but forgive me if I am wrong, that the Feyli may be "claimed" by Persians to not be Kurd, and claimed at the same time by Kurdish websites/peoples for being an "integral part" of Kurdistan. That might be politically interesting for both sides: the less people who want an autonomous Kurdistan within Iran the better, from a Persian/Iranian state view (see also Iranian Kurdistan, Kurdish separatism in Iran and [14]); the more people who want an independent/autonomous Kurdistan, undoubtedly the better from the official Kurdish view.

To make things more complicated, there appears to be a rise in Kurdish nationalism in the Iranian South Kurdistan areas recently, with now also increasing numbers of Lurs (Lors) calling themselves (again?) primarily Kurdish [15] (Lurs in the past seem to have "split off" from the Kurdish tribes) and some follow-up discussion about the article here [16] (the mesop article might actually make an interesting reference for this article and/or the Lurs page.

Now, back to the article. As mentioned, it should present a neutral point of view, like any article. Regarding ethnicity / identity, the reader should be like an observer who gets explained why - mostly - Feyli are called Kurds and also why some sources argue that they should be called Lurs/Lors, and that yet others mention that more and more Lurs call themselves Kurdish (obviously not all, but it's dynamic). So while apparently the overwhelming number of references to Feylis on the web is as "Kurds", there are also views of Feylis as Lurs, because ...... (reasons there) including citations from reliable sources. This could be written in just a few sentences in the article. Then, if necesary, the remainder of the article could use the term "Feyli" instead of "Feyli + noun" to neutralise, but I am not sure if that is acceptable for everyone.

Please also note our readership: from the Google result I would infer that if average people (i.e. not academics) look for information on Feyli that they will search by majority for "Feyli Kurd" because that is the only term they know / have heard of; if this Article would only contain the term "Feyli Lurs" this page would not come up very high in their search results.

So, finally, maybe some solutions to stop the edit warring include:

(1) adding some discussion to the article (eg in introduction or right after) about the naming of this group of people, and which source states what and why, and for all Feylis or only subsets of them, effects of Kurdish nationalism etc.;

(2) decide what the standard term should be for Feylis in this article (e.g. "Feylis", or "Feylish Kurds", or "Feylish Lurs", or "Feylish people" ....).

That being said, before anyone starts shouting at me :-) please be aware of the WP policy on civility, if I said something wrong above it was without intent to do so, I cannot be completely informed about worldwide cultural sensitivities. Please note that comments about the contents of an article should be discussed right here on this article talkpage (so every interested user can find it back in the future), not on User Talkpages.

Please do note the copyright issue warning above on this talk page, no copypasting from external websites please, it may cause very expensive problems for WP and is taken very serious. Cheers. Poepkop (talk) 21:19, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks for your useful contribution Poepkop. I am a Feyli myself, and whole my life I have known to be a Kurd. It seems to me that it is mostly Persian nationalists that have classified the Feylis as Lurs, to divide and rule (the Kurds). The Feyli Kurds "problem" is known to the United Nations, and they also refer to the Feylis as Feyli KURDS and view them as a stateless people. After the regime change in Iraq 2003, a new constitution was drafted, and I would like to refer you to it where you can clearly read that the Iraqi state views the Feylis as Kurds inside the Iraqi constitution: http://www.iraqinationality.gov.iq/attach/iraqi_constitution.pdf (just search for these terms inside the document "and the Fayli Kurds"). Also, I would like to mention that not all Kurds are Sunnis or Shias, you also got Yezidis, Christians, Jews (many of them in Israel). And so I would like to point out that Feyli does not equal Shia.

(Avicenna1985 (talk) 15:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC))

Hi Avicenna, thanks for the relevant source, which you already included in the Article I see :-). Maybe I'll add one or two references I used above in the Article later on, first want to see if the Article remains calm now, or if you want to do it feel free. Yes, sorry, Feylis are not all shia, of course, but for me it was a confusing new topic to get my head around. Anyway, hope the warring stays away. Poepkop (talk) 11:45, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the article did not remain calm. I restored the page, and I also changed one part and added this line as the reason for the edit: "Removed Lurs as well as Kurds and just kept the term Feylis", since we agree on the term Feylis, lol. (Avicenna1985 (talk) 18:39, 1 March 2014 (UTC))

About some reverts.

Morin @Ahmetyal:. I noticed your reverting of my reverts (Well i have learned the meaning of ironic now...) and i note that some of the links got broken because the IP/Anon changed some of the link's names. The capitalization was great but most of the wiki-links got broken as a result of changing spelling of some of the words like changing "i" to "e". Hope you can consiter some of my reverts as keeping them there. Thanks Lor^Chat 10:26, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Request to change name

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over two weeks. Jenks24 (talk) 13:00, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

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Feylis → Feyli Kurds – The page is keep getting vandalised by people that claim that Feylis are Lori people. Therefore I think its a good idea if the title gets changed to Feyli Kurds --Relisted. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 16:49, 6 July 2014 (UTC) Ahmetyal (talk) 20:31, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Lurs

There has been recent edit warring to change the opening to say that the Feylis are Lurs, replacing the Iraqi constitution as a reference with Encyclopædia Iranica. This clearly relates to the section above requesting a move, which was granted. Discuss the source here - in particular Didaku. Yngvadottir (talk) 16:43, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much Yngvadottir for bringing this topic up again, as it's weird for me to get a warning after reverting to a riable source wich matchs with WP's guidlines. I would love to futher dicuss the matter here. as for Faylis, thier stuckness to Kurds are completly confusing as the feylis lives south-eastern iras (a arabic shite are). they are an arabic-speaking people with a shite islamic branch faith. as the Kurds are Sorani or Kurmanji speaking with a sunni branch. The Feylis are known to be a offspring of the "Iranian" Lur. anyways I have a riable source wich is a scientific supported as for the one now. its a political propegrandic. Didaku (talk) 22:38, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

@Didaku: Don't accuse other editors of political propaganda; that is not going to make them inclined to listen to you. The reference you are replacing is the actual constitution of Iraq. Given what the article says, isn't it more likely that the Encyclopedia Iranica is oversimplifying or otherwise misstating than a country's constitution? Can you find any additional sources supporting your position, such as academic articles or published books by neutral scholars? Since you are the one who wishes to change the article - and also see discussions above, including the move request - you need to bring strong evidence, rather than simply seeking to replace a strong source with one that doesn't seem as likely to be neutral. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:33, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I did notaccuse other users to promotepropeganda, I meant "source" used are most likely to be politically motivated, since the Iraqi government is not exactly the most scientific organization in the world. a country that survives by political propegandas. I do not quite understand why you think "my" source is not neutral enough? it's because you personally believe that Feylis are Kurds ?.Didaku (talk) 20:53, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Feylis are Kurds.

Feylis and Lurs are not even closely related. Feylis have always been a part of the Kurdish nation while Lurs are a recent phenomenon of Kurds becomming culturely mixed with Persians which is aparent by their language. The only similarites that Feylis and Lurs have are that they are both Shia and the boundries of their areaslie next to each other (only in Iran, Feylis are also found in Iraq). Feyli ancestry is thus: Proto-Kurdish -> Gurani -> Leki -> Feyli.

http://www.kurdishacademy.org/?q=node/46

The Encyclopædia Iranica link contains only one line that claims "FEYLĪ, group of Lor tribes located mainly in Luristan." with no supporting evidence. This totally false, there are hardly any Feylis in Luristan, but there are Lekis. Around 4 million Feylis in Iran live mostly in Ilam (Luristan is totally in Iran), but almost 2 million Feylis also live in Iraq. Next, Feyli clans are not at all included in Lur tribal society.

http://feyli.se/index.php/culture/clans — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feyli Kurd (talk • contribs) 12:16, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Lur vs. Kurd and the general quality of the article

As a scholar of the subject with no time and nerves to enter edit wars and the like (and NO dog in the fight), I would like to contribute with some scolarly facts concerning this article in the hope that it might help editors to get a better picture:

Lurs vs. Kurds: The problem here - and the ACTUAL issue in your discussions - is mainly the ongoing kurdification of many Western Iranian peoples, which leads to these differing POVs. Historically, the term "kurd" can be traced back to a general, unspecific term for various Iranian nomadic tribes in (Greater) Iran, i.e. Persia. The term "kurd" was not an ethnicon, but only started to be used as one in rather recent times. And as an ethnicon, it became politicised and started to expand. Therefore, we can find young people who may today identify themselves as Kurds, while their grand-grandparents didn't. Speakers of the Gorani language are a perfect example for this: influenced by Kurdish nationalist ideas, media, etc., some of them today do call themselves Kurds, while from a scientific (linguistics, anthropology, history etc.) point of view, they clearly aren't Kurds. Same goes for Zaza people in Anatolia. And although we do find Gorani / Zaza people who identify as Kurds too, there are also those who don't (particularly amongst the Zaza population). Thus, as "Kurd" is not a clearly defined identity such as "Pashtun" or "German", but rather an expanding concept, this constitutes a big difficulty for encyclopaedic entries. However, you cannot - as someone here did - accuse e.g. Iranica of following a "nationalist Persian" POV. That is utter nonsense. Iranica is peer reviewed, hard scholarship and bases its description on scholarly research, i.e. it focuses on linguistic, anthropological and historical criteria rather than "who identifies as what", which is often based on ephemeral ideological sentiment. You do not have to agree 100% with scholarship, but you cannot dismiss e.g. the linguistic aspect when discussing the Feyli people because you happen to identify with x or y. Parsis today generally identify as Indians, but they are clearly an Iranian people. You simply cannot write an article about Parsis without mentioning Iran and Persia. Same applies to this article. While it is not a problem at all to identify as Kurds, it would simply be unsound to completely ignore the fact that the Feylis share a substantial background with Lurs and like the Lak, do not constitute the core of the concept/identity "Kurd".

Mehrdad Izady: Ironically, while some people (supposedly Kurds) try to slam Iranica and do not consider it a neutral source (!), they seem to have no problem with Mehrdad Izady being quoted/referenced all over the article. N.B.: Izady is a known revisionist with a bunch of entirely unscientific, purely ideological Kurdish-nationalist ideas. He is by no means an expert in the scholarly sense. Quoting him in favour of your argument at a serious department of Iranian studies / Near Eastern history / Oriental Studies etc. basically disqualifies you as a serious scholar. He is really THAT obviously biased and unscientific (just one example from the article: "he claims that the Arabic Feyli is a corruption of Pahla, meaning Parthia." - well, 1. Parthians were unrelated to the Kurds and 2. Izady lacks the linguistic expertise to clearly demonstrate and document the etmology; it is just his "gut" speaking here, as so often). Thus, looking at this article with respect to its sources, I simply cannot escape the impression that like 95% of anything pertaining to Kurds and Kurdish on Wikipedia, it is more or less the product of Kurdish nationalist assertions rather than a conclusion of careful scholarly research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.217.197.148 (talk) 01:31, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Feylis are Lurs although they are well-mixed and accepted among their Kurdish neighbours

Dear free Encyclopedia users, as it is evident Feylis are and have been an integral part of Lurish community. For decades the title Kurd has attributed to Iranian nomads from total Iran plateau. This phrase included Persian, Lurish and other Iranian nomads. In case of Lurish people, due to signifcfgant similarities and interrelationships they were claimed several times by Kurdish authors to be a branch of so-called Greater Kurdistan. This claim was not welcomed by Lurish community. In Iraq, but the condition has been different. Historically due to bad behaviour received by Arab adjacent groups for centuries and decades (Saddam era cruelty and Anfalgenocide tragedy are only a recently well-documented subject) and their significant similarities and interrelationships by their Kurdish adjacent communities, they oriented towards Kurdish integration although they have not denied their Lurish origins at all. I do not deny significant similarities between these two ethnic groups, but historical and routine evidences confirm their Lurish identity.--Shadegan (talk) 15:11, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Lur in Luristan Have been mixed with Laks and borrowed some Laki words. In fact Luristan Lurs have been mixed with Kurdish Laks. Ilami and Kermanshahi Kurds speake as same as each others and consider /considered themselves as Kurd. You as a Lur can not claim that Feyli Kurds are Lurs that mixed with Kurds. Chardoli tribes who are chardavoli Ilami tribes have migrated from Ilam 800 years ago to Shahin dej, qorveh and asad abad they consider them selves as Kurd and speak Kurdish. Ilami Kurdish dialect is as same as Chardoli tribes. Nationalist Lurs,Feyli Kurds are not Lur. Luri is a dialect of farsi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.66.181 (talk) 21:55, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

I am a Feyli Kurd and I believe that you as a Lur are trying to change the identity of Feyli Kurds using Fallacious Feyli Lur article. You claim that Feyli Kurds were controled by Lur rulers for 4 centuries and so We are Lur. My father and my grand father and my ancestors have verified that Feyli Kurds are not Lur but are Kurd and during 4 centuries our land (Ilam) had been ocupied and governed by cruel Lur ruler who changed the name of our land to Luristan. According to what i have heard from may ancestors Lur rulers (Vali) have killed many Feyli Kurds and migrated some tribes of Lur from Luristan to change demography of old Pushtkooh or Ilam. Feyli Kurds were introduced as Lur deliberately to all of travelers and Writers by Lur rulers and Feyli kurds had been denied. due to heavey tax by Lur ruler some of Feyli Kurd tribes migrated to Iraq to escape from the hand of Lur ruler. Feyli Kurds are not and were not Lur but some nationalist Lur try to deny their identity. I prefer to trust to my ancestors who have said we are Shia Kurd not Lur and we (Feyli Kurds) dont trust to fabricated history presented by pan Lurs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.57.38.253 (talk) 09:46, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Suggestion

Feyli Kurds are Kurd not Lur. I am a Feyli Kurd. A comparison of words used by Feyli Kurd and Lur (Khoram abad Lurs) has been done as following:

Luri - Feyli Kurdish - sorani Kurdish dialect -Farsi - English

Miham - Toam/Xoazem - Detoam/damhavi- Mikham - want

RO - bechoo - bro- boro - go

Tash - agir -Agir- Atash - fire

jomah - Kerwas/shoy - Kerwas/kwa-jameh/pirhan - shirt

Moem - eishem - eishem- Migam - say

dard - jan/ish - jan/ish- dard - pain

omain - Hatin - Hatin- oomadan - come

Harden - xoarden - xoarden- xordan - eat

aftaw - Xoar - xoar-aftab/Khorshid - sun

XOAR - xoeishk - xoeishk-xahar - sister

bawa - bawk - bab-baba - father

verdashten- Halgirten-Halgirten- bardashtan- take

Chor- Miz- Miz- edrar- Urinate

giah/eshkam- zek- sek- shekam- belly

As you can see Lurish words are not similar to Feyli Kurdish words and Luri is very similar to Persian while Feyli Kurdish words are very similar to

Sorani Kurdish dialect.

some Lurs in iran try to introduce Feyli Kurds as Lur. They claim that Feyli Kurds were controled by Lur rulers for 4 centuries and so you are Lur. My father and my grand father and my ancestors have said that Feyli Kurds are not Lur but we are Kurd and during 4 centuries our land had been ocupied and governed by Lur ruler. Lur rulers have killed many Feyli Kurds and migrated some tribes of Lur from Luristan to change demography of old Pushtkooh or Ilam. Feyli Kurds were introduced as Lur deliberately to all of travelers and Writers by Lur rulers and Feyli kurds had been denied. due to heavey tax by Lur ruler some of Feyli Kurd tribes migrated to Iraq to escape from the hand of Lur ruler. Feyli Kurds are not and were not Lur but some nationalist Lur try to deny their identity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.66.181 (talk) 21:39, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 19 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus Number 57 22:58, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

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Feyli Kurds → Feyli people – As there is lots of confusion about the real ethnic belonging of Feyli people, I suggest it's page name should be changed to prevent more tensions and confusion about Lurish or Kurdish ethnicity of these people. Shadegan (talk) 16:50, 19 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 05:21, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose: Tension and confusion about Lurish and Kurdish ethnicity? :) Firstly, I recommend you to stop Disinformation. If users look at those 1 , 2 , 3 edits. It can be seen how you manipuleting realities and write some so called persian names to use Luri, Lurish POV-push everywhere. They are Feyli Kurds and there are reliable sources for this statement. Your purpose is changing name, after that deleting reliable sources about their Kurdishness to replace some so called persian sources which can not be proved. If you really want to help Wikipedia, I recommend you to do something useful instead of disinformation. Thanks.--Gomada (talk) 11:16, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

• Strong Support: Dear free Encyclopedia users, th original name for this page, has been Feyli people but due to some ethnocentric efforts by some amateur users this name has changed to a challenging name Feyli Kurds!!!!. By the way, this caused a strong resistance and opposition notes by Lurish and realistic users of Wikipedia. As it is evident Feylis are and have been an integral part of Lurish community. For decades the title Kurd has attributed to Iranian nomads from total Iran plateau. This phrase included Persian, Lurish and other Iranian nomads. In case of Lurish people, due to signifcfgant similarities and interrelationships they were claimed several times by Kurdish authors to be a branch of so-called Greater Kurdistan. This claim was not welcomed by Lurish community. In Iraq, but the condition has been different. Historically due to bad behaviour received by Arab adjacent groups for centuries and decades (Saddam era cruelty and Anfalgenocide tragedy are only a recently well-documented subject) and their significant similarities and interrelationships by their Kurdish adjacent communities, they oriented towards Kurdish integration although they have not denied their Lurish origins at all. I do not deny significant similarities between these two ethnic groups, but historical and routine evidences confirm their Lurish identity. In order to prevent more tensions and controversial edits I suggest the name be returned to it's original and previous form; "Feyli people"--Shadegan (talk) 03:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Feylis are Lurs

FEYLĪ, group of Lor tribes located mainly in Luristan. During the two centuries in which the whole of Luristan was ruled by hereditary wālīs (descended from Ḥosayn Khan Solvīzī, appointed by Shah ʿAbbās I in 1006/1597-98) all the tribes in the region were called Feylī (Eskandar Beg, tr. Savory, II, p. 721; Curzon, Persian Question, I, p. 278; Minorsky, p. 826)هوسئین (talk) 16:33, 25 December 2015 (UTC).

Your response: 'Bold textYou said that all of the tribes called Feyli that mean Kurdish and Lur tribes had been called Feylis. You can not say only based on a Feyli word that all of the tribes were Lur. Our fathers and our ancestors have said to us that we are not Lur. I prefer to trust to my ancestors instead of fabricated documents presented by Pan Lurs.

POV-push and reliability of sources

Hello, please look at this and this edits of user:Shadegan. It's important to look at sources. For example, the user:Shadegan added , Erik John Anonby as a so-called source which supports Laki belongs to Luri language. But if you read pages 19 and 20, you can see a comparison of Pish-e Kuh Laki with Kurdish and Luri. After that the author says: Pish-e Kuh Laki is aligned with Kurdish rather than Luri. This is distortion of information. User:Shadegan is also adding some persian sources which can not be checked/proved. Thanks.--Gomada (talk) 14:03, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Another falsifying from User:Shadegan. The source says:Fayli (Faylee, Faili, or Feli) Kurds are, as their name tells, an inseparable segment of the Kurdish population in Iraq and an integral part of the Kurdish nation, which is divided among many countries in the Middle East, mainly Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. Fayli Kurds have themselves shown, over the years, and still show this fact and reality by words and deeds. They speak a dialect that belongs to the southern Kurdish dialect called Luri which is spoken in the southern areas of Kurdistan proper, particularly on both sides of the border areas between Iraq and Iran. And the user:Shadegan is using this source as a proof of so called Lur identity. Who will stop this vandalism?--Gomada (talk) 11:37, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

POV-push and Large-scale vandalism effort by user: Gomada

As it was asked by English Wikipedia administrators, I provided some authentic and valid references for Lurish Identity of Feyli Lurs in two edited pages. As you can see in the history of these pages the user User:Gomada has changed and removed these logical and authentic edits. As an old user of Wikipedia I think some users have imagined and counted this invaluable and useful encyclopedia as a farce and mischief area to distort the realities and promote their ethnocentric and ambitious aims. I hope Wikipedia adminstrators and other realistic users help to stop and prevent such inappropriate vandalism efforts.--Shadegan (talk) 13:55, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Stop your personal attack and show us the mention of Feyli Lur in sources. As I mentioned above, you are falsifying sources.--Gomada (talk) 15:39, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

As everyone can see and trace, there are good and authentic citations and sources mentioned n the page. Don't forget you're not an administrator of English Wikipedia , thus you don't have any authority to remove well-documented citations and edits. Your question in talk page is not related to these edits. Know your right and limits and stop vandalism efforts.--Shadegan (talk) 17:32, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

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Feyli Lurs article try to introduce Feyli Kurds as Lurs. No Lur in Luristan , Charmahal va bakhtiari and Kohgeluieh va boyer ahmad in Iran consider himself as Feyli Kurd. In other words Feyli Kurds point out to Ilam and Kermanshah Kurds not Lur in Lursitan , Bakhtiaris and Kohgiloieh whose pepole introduce themselves only as Lur not Feyli. Ilam and Kermanshah Kurds who had been under the control of Lur ruler for 4 centuries introduce theselves as Kurd. You can check wikipedia page for Kermanshah, Sarpolezahab,Ghasreshirin, Ilam, Islamabad, Gilanegharb , Eyvan , Malekshahi , Abdanan ,Sirvan and Chardavol. All of these regions didnt introduce themselves as Lur in Wikipedia page in contrast to what has been written in this page that Feylis introduce themselves as Lur. There is no Lurish clothing in above mentioned regions in contrast to what has been written in this page. in above mentioed regions some people use Kurdsih dress and some use Persian formal dress and no one dress Lurish dress. Lurish dress only is used in Luristan, Charmahal va Bakhtiari and Kohgiloieh and by some tribes (only some tribes ) in south of Ilam. Some tribes such as Shuhans, Selyverzis and Kaydkhordeh which comprise less than 10 % of Ilam province population. It is suggested that Wikipedia decide to Keep Feyli Kurds pages or Feyli Lurs since these two articles are similar to each other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.71.61 (talk) 15:45, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Feyli Kurds are Kurds not Lur

I am a Feyli Kurd and I believe that you as a Lur are trying to change the identity of Feyli Kurds using Fallacious Feyli Lur article. You claim that Feyli Kurds were controled by Lur rulers for 4 centuries and so We are Lur. My father and my grand father and my ancestors have verified that Feyli Kurds are not Lur but are Kurd and during 4 centuries our land (Ilam) had been ocupied and governed by cruel Lur ruler who changed the name of our land to Luristan. According to what i have heard from may ancestors Lur rulers (Vali) have killed many Feyli Kurds and migrated some tribes of Lur from Luristan to change demography of old Pushtkooh or Ilam. Feyli Kurds were introduced as Lur deliberately to all of travelers and Writers by Lur rulers and Feyli kurds had been denied. due to heavey tax by Lur ruler some of Feyli Kurd tribes migrated to Iraq to escape from the hand of Lur ruler. Feyli Kurds are not and were not Lur but some nationalist Lur try to deny their identity. I prefer to trust to my ancestors who have said we are Shia Kurd not Lur and we (Feyli Kurds) dont trust to fabricated history presented by pan Lurs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.57.38.253 (talk) 09:48, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Stop new fratricide please

Dear brother/sisters To make enmity and malice between very interrelated and common cultures (Lurish and Kurdish) is a very disastrous and regretful event. There is no distinct border between these two pure ethnicities and cultures. I think our conflict is really a fratricide and brutality.. Why some Kurds try to ignore our identity instead of helping us to recover from lack of broadcast media and gradually demolishing our cultural asdets. There had not been any enmity and even real differences between our cultures during thousands years of coexistence. Please stop your regretful efforts against our deprived and oppressed cultural assets. We expected brotherhood instead of fratricide and we still expect you. Feylis are a sign of our inevitable brotherhood, unity and coherence. Please let both papers Feyli Lurs and Feyli Kurds to exist in Wikipedia --Shadegan (talk) 12:12, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Why Pan Lurs try to introduce Feyli Kurds as Lur when Feyli Kurds consider themselves as Kurd

Feyli Lurs article try to introduce Feyli Kurds as Lurs. No Lur in Luristan , Charmahal va bakhtiari and Kohgeluieh va boyer ahmad in Iran consider himself as Feyli Kurd. In other words Feyli Kurds point out to Ilam and Kermanshah Kurds not Lur in Lursitan , Bakhtiaris and Kohgiloieh whose pepole introduce themselves only as Lur not Feyli. Ilami and Kermanshahi Kurds who had been under the control of Lur ruler for 4 centuries introduce theselves as Kurd. You can check wikipedia page for Kermanshah, Sarpolezahab,Ghasreshirin, Ilam, Islamabad, Gilanegharb , Eyvan , Malekshahi , Abdanan ,Sirvan and Chardavol. Pepole in all of these regions didnt introduce themselves as Lur in Wikipedia page in contrast to what has been written in Feyli Lur artilce .Feyli Lur article prepared by Pan Lurs and containing fallacious parts which claim that Feyli Kurds introduce themselves as Lur (a big Lie). There is no Lurish clothing in above mentioned regions (including Feyli Kurds) in contrast to what has been written in Feyli Lur wikipedia page. Through above mentioed regions some Feyli Kurds use Kurdsih dress and some use Persian formal dress and no one use Lurish dress. Lurish dress only is used in Luristan, Charmahal va Bakhtiari and Kohgiloieh and by some tribes (only some tribes ) in south of Ilam. Some tribes such as Shuhans, Selyverzis and Kaydkhordeh which comprise less than 10 % of Ilam province population. It is suggested that Wikipedia decide to Keep Feyli Kurds pages instead of Feyli Lur page since these two articles are similar to each other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.57.38.253 (talk) 09:54, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Lur in Luristan are persians who have been mixed with Laks (Kurds)

Lur in Luristan Have been mixed with Laks and borrowed some Laki words. In fact Luristan Lurs have been mixed with Kurdish Laks. Ilami and Kermanshahi Kurds speake as same as each others and consider /considered themselves as Kurd. No one can claim that Feyli Kurds are a group of Lurs have been mixed with Kurds. Chardoli tribes who are chardavoli Ilami tribes have migrated from Ilam 800 years ago to Shahin dej, qorveh and asad abad they consider them selves as Kurd and speak Kurdish. Ilami Kurdish dialect is as same as Chardoli tribes. Nationalist Lurs,Feyli Kurds are not Lur. Luri is a dialect of farsi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.57.38.253 (talk) 19:13, 31 August 2016‎ (UTC)

Kurdish is also a dialect of Persian?!

Please stop baseless edits. Kurds, Hawramis, Kormanjs, Lurs and Zazad are Iranian people but not Kurdish, Lurish, Kurmanji and not Persian are not a dialect of each other. Your bad efforts is fueling a disastrous fratricide, please stop them. --Shadegan (talk) 12:25, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Feyli Lurs are adjacent to Sorani Kurds and they're not Kurds at all

Both Lurish and Kurdish are Western Iranian languages. Feyli Lurish as the northest part of Lurish has affected on and has been affected by neighbour languages like Kurdish and Hawrami. You can also see such a trend in Southern Lurish-Persian interactions. Why did you compare Feyli Lurish with Khorramabadi that are not neighbors? You can see the citations and referrences in the bottom part of Feyli Lurs paper. You can ask most Feylis in Iraqi side too. "Great Kurdistan" dreams swallow everyone and everything, what a voracious appetite!Ahad.r.fard (talk) 09:45, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Please dont try to change the identity of Feyli Kurds ,Feyli Kurds are Shia (Like Kurmanji Khorasan Kurds who are also Shia) and enjoy equality in Iran

Dear friend

According to Encyclopedia Iranica During the two centuries in which the whole of Luristan was ruled by hereditary wālīs all the tribes in the region were called Feylī ( It can be concluded that all of tribes include Kurds and Lurs had been called Feyli).At the beginning of the 19th century, the situation changed. Moḥammad-ʿAlī Mīrzā, eldest son of Fatḥ-ʿAlī Shah Qājār (1212-50/1797-1834) and governor-general of Kermānšāh, seized Pīš-e Kūh (the eastern part of Luristan), leaving to the wālī only Pošt-e Kūh (the western part). Furthermore, according to Encyclopedia Iranica the name Feylī had been previously associated with the Solvīzī dynasty, it (or Feyli word) came to denote only those tribes in the Pošt-e Kūh (Ilam). Explicitly, Encylopedia Iranica indicates that from 200 years ago so far Feyli name has been attributed to Pusht-e Kuh. This Encyclopedia reports that The two major Feylī tribes in Pusht-e Kuh region are Kord and Mahakī (Kurdish). If Ilami tribes were Lur why Iranica Encyclopedia didn't say that Ilami Tribes are Lur and in contrast to Pan Lurs propaganda over Lurish identiy of Ilam Encyclopedia Iranica has noted that Pust-e Kuh tribes are Kord and Mahaki (Mahaki is Kurdish dialect of Beyray tribe in Ilam) . According to this encyclopedia Pust-e Kuh (Ilam) is Feyli (Because from 200 years ago up to now Feyli word exclusively hase been used to describe Ilam or Pusht-e Kuh not Khoram abad and Lurs) and Kurd not Lur. Nevertheless this Encyclopedia can cause some misunderstandings because it has noted that FEYLĪ, group of Lor tribes located mainly in Luristan (it means is old Luristan including Pish Kuh and Pusht-e Kuh). Nevertheless in second paragraph Encyclopedia Iranica reports that Pusht-e Kuh (Ilam) tribes are Kurd not Lur. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.65.163 (talk) 16:41, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Kurds ( include Zaza , Hewrami , Feyli and Sorani ), Pashtoo Spekers, Baluchs and also Lurs belong to Iran, Nevertheless Kurdish , Blauches , Zazas and Pashtoo are language can you show me a new academic document which demonstrate that Luri is a language

Can you show me a new academic research which demonstrate Luri (include Khoram abadin, Bakhtiari and Kohgloieh) is a language. Please show me a document from European or american linguistics (Researchers) not from Native Lur authors such as Amanollahi, Baharvand or ....... Wikipedia and other weblogs are edited by Lurs and we can not trust to these pages although they defend that  Luri is a Language but I am eager to see a new academic research from non-Iranian researchers which demonstrate Luri is a language. Lurs try to Lurify Ilam and Kermanshah and Laks and hope Luri be named as language.  According to self-declaration Lurs include Luristani Lurs (Pole-dokhtar, Dorud, Boroujerd, Khoram abad ), Bakhtiari Lurs ,Kohgluieh Lurs ,some tribes in Hamedan  and  some tribes in southern part of Ilam province (comprise 10% of whole population of Ilam province). For self-declaration we acquire information about our identity from our fathers , our grand fathers and our ancestors not from fabricated claims of Pan Lurs.       — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.65.163 (talk) 17:23, 1 September 2016 (UTC) 

What is the meaning of adjecent , why do Luri words of Khoramabad, Dorud, Pol e doktar and .. are not similar to Feyli Kurds Words and are not similar to Sorani Kurdish dialect when you claim that Feyli Kurds and Lurs are speak as same as each others.

Feyli Lur is a Fabricated name made by Luristan Lurs. Feyli Kurd is a common name used in literatures ,reports and articles. Feyli according to Iranica Encyclopedia from 200 years ago so far is used to describe Pust-e Kuh (Ilam) tribes. According to Iranica Encylipedia Pust-e Kuh tribes are Kurds and Mahakis (Beyray Kurd tribe). Wy do you try to made and fabricate a Feyli Lur name when polpulation in Ilam, Kermanshah and Iraqi Feyli Kurds consider and name themselves Feyli Kurd? . I will use the name Persian lurs to describe Luristani Lurs if you continue to use a Fabricated name of FEYLI Lur instead of Feyli Kurd. We suggests Wikipedia suspend your account and remove Fabricated Feyli Lur wikipedia article to prevent any edit by you and your coworkers. FEYLI lur article is silent try by Pan Lurs to deny Feyli Kurds identity just like old Lur ruler (Walis) who deliberately have tried to introduce Pust-e Kuh (ILAM) Kurd tribes as Lur tribes to all of travellers, writers and historian. You as a Lur are not allowed (are you lawyer of Feyli Kurds?), you are not a famous linguistic (if you claim that you are a famous lingustic please inform us and give us your published articles in international journals and demonstrate scientifically Feyli Kurds are not Kurd ) to decide and speak on behalf of Feyli Kurds and claim that Feyli Kurds are not Kurd??!! I can say Lurs are Persian . In Iran Lur population considered as Persian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.84.108 (talk) 06:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Kurdish is a Persian dialect

• Persian. Kurdish Turkish English
• Âb Âw Su Water
• Šab Šaw Gece Night
• Rûz Rúž Gön Day
• Warzeš warzeš edman sport
• Del del yurag heart
• Dast dast el hand
• To tu sen you
• Sar sar baş head
• Pa pe ayak foot
• Zeban zeman dil language
• Draz dréž uzun long

And all words altogether show that Kurdish is a dialect of Persian language. Despite this because of separation of some Kurdish societies from Iran, this dialect sometimes has been considered as a different language.--Shadegan (talk) 08:23, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Why Pan Lurs try to introduce Feyli Kurds as Lur when Feyli Kurds consider themselves as Kurd

According to Encyclopedia Iranica During the two centuries in which the whole of Luristan was ruled by hereditary wālīs all the tribes in the region were called Feylī ( It can be concluded that all of tribes include Kurds and Lurs had been called Feyli).At the beginning of the 19th century, the situation changed. Moḥammad-ʿAlī Mīrzā, eldest son of Fatḥ-ʿAlī Shah Qājār (1212-50/1797-1834) and governor-general of Kermānšāh, seized Pīš-e Kūh (the eastern part of Luristan), leaving to the wālī only Pošt-e Kūh (the western part). Furthermore, according to Encyclopedia Iranica the name Feylī had been previously associated with the Solvīzī dynasty, it came to denote only those tribes in the Pošt-e Kūh (Ilam). Explicitly, Encylopedia Iranica indicates that from 200 years ago so far Feyli name has been attributed to Pusht-e Kuh. This Encyclopedia reports that The two major Feylī tribes in Pusht-e Kuh region are Kord and Mahakī (Kurdish). If Ilami tribes were Lur why Iranica Encyclopedia didn't say that Ilami Tribes are Lur and in contrast to Pan Lurs propaganda over Lurish identiy of Ilam has reported that Pust-e Kuh tribes are Kord and Mahaki (Mahaki is Kurdish dialect of Beyray tribe in Ilam) . According to this encyclopedia Pust-e Kuh (Ilam) is Feyli (Because from 200 years ago up to now Feyli word exclusively hase been used to describe Ilam or Pusht-e Kuh not Khoram abad and Lurs) and Kurd not Lur. Feyli Kurds in Pust-e Kuh originally were Kurds governed and controlled by Lur Ruler. Chardoli tribes who are chardavoli Ilami tribes have migrated from Ilam 800 years ago (Lur rulers captured Ilam or Pusht-e kuh 400 years ago) to Shahin dej, qorveh and asad abad they consider them selves as Kurd and speak Kurdish. Ilami Kurdish dialect is as same as Chardoli tribes. Chardoli tribe dialect is Kurdish and they consider themselves as Kurd. Now, what is the goal of Pan Lurs propaganda to introduce Feyli Kurd tribes (Originally from Ilam) as Lur???. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.84.108 (talk) 08:28, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks -Shadegan for your comment. You have compared Persian,Kurdish , Turkish and English words and thereby concluded that Kurdish is similar to Persian and Kurdish can be considered as a dialect of Persian language. Based on your conclusion Feyli Kurdish is similar to Sorani Kurdish and is more close to Sorani Kurdish than Luri in other word they are similar to KUrds not Lurs linguistically

As you said Kurdish can be considered as a dialect of Persian language just like Luri. I am not advocating Kurds. I am Feyli Kurd and I try to focous only on identity of Feyli Kurds. Feyli Kurds are Shia and Northern Iraqi Kurd dont try to solve their problems. When i read Kurd massacre i see Northern Iraqi Kurds try to magnifiy Halabjeh massacre and undermine the massacre of Feyli Kurds i feel disappointment. I see an obvious discrimination between Northern Iraqi Kurds and Iraqi Feyli Kurds. Be sure that I am not a Pan Kurd. I am an Iranian  Shia Kurd and enjoy equality in Iran.  Another question which can be asked is why all of kurds consider themselves as kurd ??? . There is no obligation for  Kurmanj, Soran and Zaza, Feyli Kurd speakers to consider themselves as Kurd. Why do you try to obligate Ilami , Kermanshahi and other Feyli Kurds to accept they are Lur???. You can refer me to all of Books, articles and travelers daily writings from 400 years ago so far (400 years ago Pust-e Kuh was captured by Lur rulers).  As you Know old local governments(such a as Lur rulers or Walis) all over the world have tried to unify  their people with different dialect and race. I am Feyli Kurd as I know all of Ilami and Kermanshahi Feyli Kurds (not Ilami Lurs) consider themselves as Shia Feyli Kurd and no one consider himself as Lur. What is your goal?? are you think that you can change the idea of Feyli Kurds to bring them in your group and organize them as Lur??. My brothers Please accept Feyli Kurds as Shia Kurds with historical ties with Lurs. Feyli Kurds are Part of Iran and followers of 12 Imam Shia. My grand father has died 70 years a go he didn't see any satellite program to be excited and name himself as Kurd but he has said that we are Shia Kurds (Kurmanji Khorasani Kurds are also Shia) and we are not Lur. 

Good Luck — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.70.145 (talk) 09:02, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Stop swallowing everyone and everywhere to expand so-called GREAT KURDISTAN!! territory!

Dear realistic Encyclopedia users, the original name for this page, has been Feyli people but due to some ethnocentric efforts by some amateur users this name has changed to a challenging name Feyli Kurds!!!!. By the way, this caused a strong resistance and opposition notes by Lurish and realistic users of Wikipedia. As it is evident Feylis are and have been an integral part of Lurish community. For decades the title Kurd has attributed to Iranian nomads from total Iran plateau. This phrase included Persian, Lurish and other Iranian nomads. In case of Lurish people, due to signifcfgant similarities and interrelationships they were claimed several times by Kurdish authors to be a branch of so-called Greater Kurdistan. This claim was not welcomed by Lurish community. In Iraq, but the condition has been different. Historically due to bad behaviour received by Arab adjacent groups for centuries and decades (Saddam era cruelty and Anfal genocide tragedy are only a recently well-documented subject) and their significant similarities and interrelationships by their Kurdish adjacent communities, they oriented towards Kurdish integration although they have not denied their Lurish origins at all. I do not deny significant similarities between these two ethnic groups, but historical and routine evidences confirm their Lurish identity.Shadegan (talk) 12:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

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This edit war is ridiculous. I myself am Feyli, and I'm the nephew of one of the former revolution-leaders against Saddam Hussein during the 70s. Feyli kurds are ethnically kurdish, and I have yet to meet a single Feyli, in Iraq, Iran or anywhere else that identify as a Lor. The first, and last, time I heard such a thing was in this quite strange article. Even if we were called Lorish over a thousand years ago - which I don't believe we do - that doesn't change the current situation. No greek city call themselves Pontan, or English call themselves Anglo-saxon.

I shall try to cite reliable sources showing that Feyli are kurdish:

UNHCR article, published by the Canadian board of immigration and refugees, citing Amnesty International, clearly states that Feyli are kurdish - and have been oppressed in Iraq due to being kurdish and shia.

Invitation to the first INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON FAYLEE KURDS IN EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT, by the kurdish institute in Brussels.

World Directory of Minorities and Indigenous Peoples - article describing the Feyli kurdish people and our history

Another UNHCR article on the persecution of Feyli kurds

Report on Feyli kurds refugee status by the australian Refugee Review Tribunal.

And last but not least;

A news article by kurdish national newspaper Rudaw on a monument having been erected in Baghdad in honor of Feyli Kurds paid for by feyli kurdish families around the world, such as mine, my relatives and friends. Why would we pay for a monument, and demand it from the local governments in federal Iraq and the Kurdistan region - if we don't identify as kurdish?

You are allowed to call yourself hindu if you please, but your ethnological conclusion is mistaken and rips us of our cultural identity. I have been to Lorestan and Kurdistan and I have seen the differences in culture, in traditional clothing, in dialect and in langugage.

Feylis are kurdish. Thanks. Lightonia (talk) 13:34, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

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Full protection

This ridiculous edit war has gone on for well over a month now so I have full protected the article (meaning only admins can edit it) indefinitely, i.e. until the dispute is resolved. I have locked both articles in the position of actually having content, rather than arbitrarily choosing one to redirect to the other. I am far from an expert in this topic area and frankly would rather not get involved with ethnocentric issues such as this, but this page is on my watchlist due to previous administrative intervention on the title.

My suspicion on reading over what was legible of the talk page is that this article and Feyli Lurs should be merged with due weight given to each academic viewpoint. The resulting merged article should probably then be moved to an NPOV title such as "Feyli people". But as I said, I am not an expert in this area so I leave to those involved in this dispute to make their case. Please cite reliable sources to back your position, refrain from making comments about the motivations of other editors, and remember to sign your posts. Thanks, Jenks24 (talk) 09:34, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

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Hi there, the edit war was needed to get your attention, since any Feyli Kurd visiting Wikipedia will be shocked to see that he/she is being portrayed as being a member of the "Lur-people" while they have never in their life identified as such. At least now, there are two different Feyli pages, and the original one "Feyli Kurds" is not being hijacked and redirected. The most reliable source I bring to the table is the current Constitution of the Republic of Iraq, which mentions the Feyli Kurds by name, you can read it on The New York Times website: "recalling the agonies of the national oppression in the massacres of Halabja, Barzan, Anfal and against the Faili Kurds" <=== http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/international/text-of-the-draft-iraqi-constitution.html I will wait and see what other responses we get before posting more sources. Thanks. (Avicenna1985 (talk) 03:31, 3 December 2017 (UTC))

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I entirely agree that the edit war is ridiculous. I myself am Feyli, and I'm the nephew of one of the former revolution-leaders against Saddam Hussein during the 70s. Feyli kurds are ethnically kurdish, and I have yet to meet a single Feyli, in Iraq, Iran or anywhere else that identify as a Lor. The first, and last, time I heard such a thing was in this quite strange article. Even if we were called Lorish over a thousand years ago - that doesn't change the current situation. No greek city call themselves Pontan, or English call themselves Anglo-saxon.

I shall try to cite reliable sources showing that Feyli are kurdish:

UNHCR article, published by the Canadian board of immigration and refugees, citing Amnesty International, clearly states that Feyli are kurdish - and have been oppressed in Iraq due to being kurdish and shia.

Invitation to the first INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON FAYLEE KURDS IN EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT, by the kurdish institute in Brussels.

World Directory of Minorities and Indigenous Peoples - article describing the Feyli kurdish people and our history

Another UNHCR article on the persecution of Feyli kurds

Report on Feyli kurds refugee status by the australian Refugee Review Tribunal.

And last but not least;

A news article by kurdish national newspaper Rudaw on a monument having been erected in Baghdad in honor of Feyli Kurds paid for by feyli kurdish families around the world, such as mine, my relatives and friends. Why would we pay for a monument, and demand it from the local governments in federal Iraq and the Kurdistan region - if we don't identify as kurdish?

The ethnological conclusion of Feylis being lorish is mistaken and rips us of our cultural identity. I have been to Lorestan and Kurdistan and I have seen the differences in culture, in traditional clothing, in dialect and in langugage. Feyli kurds and Lor are similar people, such as Norwegians and Swedes, or Danes and Icelandic people - but we are not the same.

Thanks. Lightonia (talk) 13:28, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

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