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Dab versus redirect

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I wonder whether this would be better to redirect to Florida State University and then have a "FSU (disambiguation)" article to list the other uses. leevclarke (talk) 04:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that would make sense given the national prominence of Florida State relative to the other uses and meanings of "FSU".--Sirberus (talk) 00:31, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I live in California and when I hear FSU I think of "Fresno State University". Just my perspective.--Marco Guzman, Jr (talk) 22:52, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Try an objective test - Google "fsu" and please post your results. When I do it (and I live in Florida, so geography may impact results...let's put it to the test) I get the main Florida State University web page listing as first. This indicates to me that most people who Google "fsu" then select Florida State University, which reinforces the Google search. This shows me, at least, that Florida State is much more known and searched than Fresno State, Fayetteville State or other "fsu" variants. If this proves true for other users (assuming they are working in good faith) I suggest we direct "fsu" in Wikipedia to Florida State.
Secondly, we should also look at the page counts for each "fsu" entity on Wikipedia as corroborative evidence. Fair enough?--Sirberus (talk) 12:08, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Excluding Google search priorities as I mentioned above, I made a quick page view count analysis of the various "fsu" variant pages with these results:
Name / Period(year-month) / Page View Count (highest to lowest numbers of page views)
Florida State Univ /2010-02/ 24,701 views
Former Soviet Union (article now titled "Post Soviet States") /2010-02/ 11,577 views
Fresno State Univ /2010-02/ 4,865 views
Friends Stand United /2010-02/ 4,643 views
Ferris State Univ /2010-02/ 3,535 views
Fayetteville State Univ /2010-02/ 2,471 views
Frostburg State Univ /2010-02/ 2,198 views
F.S.Univ of Jena /2010-02/ 1,843 views
Fairmont State Univ /2010-02/ 1,294 views
Finance Sector Union /2010-02/ 185 views
While it appears the combination "fsu" is indeed reasonably well used in a number of different ways and certainly warrants a disambiguation page, I offer that this one month analysis alone is corroborative proof and clear justification to redirect an initial Wikipedia search to Florida State University and then disambiguate the remaining uses from there. --Sirberus (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Sirberus, also keep in mind that Florida State University is a flagship university in the State University System of Florida (According to a study conducted by USA Today)[1] NorwalkJames (talk) 00:04, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

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{{movereq}}

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus for a move at this time.

The pageview statistics were compelling, but as other editors pointed out the other uses of the acronym FSU are significant. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:09, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's been suggested that this change might be in the best interest of Wikipedia users so that FSU redirects to Florida State University.--Marco Guzman, Jr (talk) 20:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. "Flagship" universities, even those who are self-denominated, deter other universities from acquiring an identity by taking elitist naming conventions (see: Cal Poly for example). An encyclopedia like Wikipedia should stay away from such corporate-naming conventions.--Marco Guzman, Jr (talk) 20:41, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. There are enough other bodies that use FSU that I don't think a move is appropriate. For instance, a google search in Canada produces a large number of hits for Fanshawe Student Union[2]. Then, of course, there is the Former Soviet Union[3] - a common result in reliable sources[4]. Throw in all the other universities that employ FSU and I think there is reasonable grounds to leave things as they are.--Labattblueboy (talk) 21:43, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The search for "fsu" should be redirected to the Florida State University main page and then disambiguated to remaining uses from there. This position is supported by the above page view analysis, which allows an intuitive connection to a popular search destination and narrowed searches for the remaining uses. This method rapidly gets users of the encyclopedia to where they want to go without additional, possibly confusing, options of significantly less viewed pages. --Sirberus (talk) 21:22, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Support. I agree with Sirberus, also keep in mind that Florida State University is a flagship university in the State University System of Florida (According to a study conducted by USA Today)[5] NorwalkJames (talk) 00:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Labattblueboy. A mere 2:1 ratio of page views between the top option and the second option doesn't convince me that Florida State is overwhelmingly the primary meaning of "FSU". cab (talk) 04:21, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - I may agree with this usually, but the second most-viewed page (Former Soviet Union) is now retitled to Post-Soviet States, thus gradually sending users to the new term and away from the former. Therefore this point loses my vote due to the substantial gap between the first and third options, which is around 5:1. :) --Sirberus (talk) 09:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wikipedians may have retitled the Wikipedia article, but the terminology in the real world remains unaffected (compare 8k GBooks hits for "Former Soviet Union" vs. ~600 for "Post-Soviet States"); even the Library of Congress classification is "Former Soviet Union". cab (talk) 00:17, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Interesting find. However, the concept of Post Soviet States or the Former Soviet Union is at best a transitional event in a geopolitical flux and substantially less noteworthy over time. Florida State University as an encyclopedia article is much more durable and less subject to the whims of news reporters looking for a clever term du jour to describe the political climate of foreign lands. As such, we should also note that "fsu" is equally durable for Florida State University compared to the third most viewed page "Fresno State" which actually is a nickname for the California State University, Fresno. In sum, you seem to suggest that the proper name of a major national university (Florida State University) rates the same in initial searches as a transitory newspaper term or the nickname for a California state college. Sorry, I just cannot agree. :) --Sirberus (talk) 01:13, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Another Comment - Look here is the point: Florida State University is a Top-Tier Research University (which generates hundreds of millions of dollars in research revenue). As Sirberus pointed out there is a 5:1 Ratio between this Flagship University and the other institutions. Heck Fresno State's real name is (Cal State, Fresno) and they are the only other school with a legitimate argument in my honest opinion. Why dont we stop the charade and look at the hard statistics.NorwalkJames (talk) 00:08, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • FSU for "Former Soviet Union" is not a "news reporters looking for a clever term du jour", it has been used in academic works for over a decade and a half now. And I have never said anything comparing Fresno State to Florida State, so I don't understand why you and Sirberus are trying to argue with me about that. cab (talk) 00:51, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I propose that we keep this debate open for another week. I would like more editors to share their opinion on this matter. This whole thing got convoluted in with the larger flagship university debate (and then the PC Police came out of the woodwork). If the debate got closed now it would be a hack job in my honest opinion. NorwalkJames (talk) 03:02, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support based on page view stats/WP:UCN & WP:DAB. The dab page itself is OK, it simply should be at FSU (disambiguation), with a hatnote on Florida State University. As a personal aside, all of the angst over this is really unnecessary, and rather odd.
    — V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 06:51, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • How much dominant is the Florida State University for people outside the USA? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:00, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
VIEW COUNT
In January of 2010 (English), Florida State University = 29,469; (German) = 363; (Spanish) = 80; (Italian) = 156; (Norwegian) = 41.
In January 2010 (Englsih), FSU = 3,170; (German) = 184; (Spanish) = 2; (Italian) = 62; (Norwegian) = 0.
NorwalkJames (talk) 14:21, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Station1's dab page presentation

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I reverted the existing dab page to Station1's presentation (very nice job!). I did this because that particular presentation more accurately reflects the content of Wikipedia. Moreover, this presentation further reflects the previous page view traffic analysis and the correct titles contained within the encyclopedia. The "fsu" search redirect should still be to Florida State University and then disambiguated from there.  :) --Sirberus (talk) 10:16, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The edits are generally appropriate but given that a number of editors have made comments as to the validity of FSU referring to Former Soviet Union I don't see reverting my edit an entirely appropriate. I'm not going to get into an edit war about it, just saying.--Labattblueboy (talk) 21:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Your view is certainly valid and I respect it. --Sirberus (talk) 00:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Dear anonymous user at IP address 61.18.190.15,
Even though FSU is a disambiguation page, it is under constant watch. Also, there have been several reverts due to vandalism from this IP address. Please consider using a user name and sign your discussions. Thanks. Geraldshields11 (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also, are you using an IP address as your signature? Geraldshields11 (talk) 20:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

FSU should be redirected to Florida State University

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According to WP:primary topic, a topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term. Now the Florida State university page averages 16,500+ page views while every other article in the disambiguation averages 1,200 and under. Florida State University is clearly the primary topic around the world in regards to FSU.--SeminoleNation (talk) 01:54, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 December 2017

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:08, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]


FSU → FSU (disambiguation) – The page FSU should redirect to the page FSU (disabiguation). There was a discusion that didn't reach a consensus on whether FSU should redirect towards Florida State University which currently averages more page views than any of the other links on the disambiguation combined. I do believe that should be discussed again seiing as the previous discussion is almost 8 years old and dates back to 2010. I believed that a reasonable way to go about it is to move the contents of the page FSU to the proper FSU (disambiguation) page. We should have that as the main disambiguation page with a link to at the top saying the the generally understood abbreviation by the general population is for Florida State University to better help people coming by the disambiguation page seeing as that it the number one link that people are looking for. Then having the other terms that it could mean below.--SeminoleNation (talk) 20:00, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose move for biased reasoning. The nominator is clearly biased judging from their username, and their argument is worded in such a way to bias other potential talk page commenters. The phrase "the proper FSU (disambiguation) page" is the most obvious sign for this, as WP:DABNAME states that disambiguation pages should be at the base title unless a primary topic exists, and no primary topic has been proven to exist. This comment is not to be taken to interpret my stance on "FSU" itself, only on the proposed move.  ONR  (talk)  22:35, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, it is unlikely for there to be a clear primary topic for a three-letter acronym with this many possible senses. bd2412 T 22:45, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't know why my Username is even being mentioned. This move doesn't benefit me at all. I'm proposing to redirect the FSU page to FSU (disambiguation) not to Florida State University which would be a biased move on my part alone. Why does LSU redirect to Louisiana State University and not the twenty other pages that it could refer to? LSU has a disambiguation page titled LSU (disambiguation). I believe that that move was 100% correct because most people are searching for Louisiana State University when they think of LSU. What is the difference here? Florida State university has more views than any of those other links combined. That seems to me like it is the main topic.--SeminoleNation (talk) 23:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Because it suggests that you might have a connection with Florida, rather than with the Former Soviet Union, for example. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:10, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@SeminoleNation: Just to be clear, we can't redirect FSU to FSU (disambiguation) per WP:MALPLACED. We never redirect a page to its own "(disambiguation)" title. bd2412 T 17:06, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I have posted what it says below.

Is there a primary topic?

See also: § Incomplete disambiguation
Shortcuts

Although a word, name, or phrase may refer to more than one topic, sometimes one of these topics can be identified as the the term's primary topic. This is the topic to which the term should lead, serving as the title of (or a redirect to) the relevant article. If no primary topic exists, then the term should be the title of a disambiguation page (or should redirect to a disambiguation page on which more than one term is disambiguated). The primary topic might be a broad-concept article, as mentioned above.

While Wikipedia has no single criterion for defining a primary topic, two major aspects that editors commonly consider are these:

  • A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.
  • A topic is primary for a term with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.

In most cases, the topic that is primary with respect to usage is also primary with respect to long-term significance; in many other cases, only one sense of primacy is relevant. In a few cases, there is some conflict between a topic of primary usage (Apple Inc.) and one of primary long-term significance (Apple). In such a case, consensus may be useful in determining which topic, if any, is the primary topic.

"""Determining a primary topic"""

Shortcut

There are no absolute rules for determining whether a primary topic exists and what it is; decisions are made by discussion among editors, often as a result of a requested move. Tools that may help to support the determination of a primary topic in a discussion (but are not considered absolute determining factors, due to unreliability, potential bias, and other reasons) include:

Some general principles for determining a primary topic include:

  • While long-term significance is a factor, historical age is not determinative. (Kennewick, Washington is primary for Kennewick over the much older Kennewick Man)
  • Being the original source of the name does not make a topic primary. (Boston is about Boston, Massachusetts, not the much older English town)
  • A topic may have principal relevance for a specific group of people (for example, as the name of a local place, or software), but not be the primary meaning among a general audience.

--SeminoleNation (talk) 00:23, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • The research, facts, and statistics speak for themselves

Wikipedia states that: 1. A topic is primary for a term with respect to usage if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term. Florida State University is much more likely than any other term combined to be the topic looked for when people search FSU

2. It also states that A topic is primary for a term with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term. FSU is a major university that has substantially greater "enduring notability and educational value" than any of the other terms by far.

3. Florida State University has more views than all of the other articles COMBINED. I used the "Wikipedia article traffic statistics (for the exact title of a page or a redirect) and redirect traffic statistics (for the total views of a page including traffic coming from its redirects)" this to guide me to the statistics. The statistics don't lie.

4. It also states that Usage in English reliable sources demonstrated with Google web, news, scholar, or books. Note using this modified Google search string eliminates personal search bias. I have checked English reliable sources such as the web, news, and books and they all point to Florida State University. No other topic was even mention. You could say that my sources are biased and I can respect that but I have used the this modified Google search string eliminates personal search bias. that Wikipedia recommends. When I search FSU on that unbiased google search only Florida State University shows up. Nothing else pops up for pages and pages both on my web search and the unbiased Google Search String that eliminates personal search bias.

You all can go ahead and search yourselves using these tools that were recommended by Wikipedia itself. All the statistics and research back up my claims of Florida State University being the Primary Topic of the term FSU.--SeminoleNation (talk) 01:19, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Order of entries

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Station1,

How does the current sorting comply with MOS:DABORDER?

Whywhenwhohow (talk) 06:56, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's based on the discussions above, especially the contention that FSU should be a primaryredirect to Florida State University. By listing the most sought topic first, we make it easier for the majority of readers. Then like entries are grouped together; scattering universities throughout the list makes it more difficult to scan. Station1 (talk) 07:04, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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