Talk:Ezra Lee (musician)

June 2015 deletions

On 25 June 2015 over a series of five edits, User:1.152.96.12 removed significant material. The user claims to be Ezra Lee:, see edit summaries:

1. it's Ezra Lee, I just made edits, can I ask who kasbot is ? I don't mind the changes but just kept some details the same.)
2. pete sheedy is not my farther's brother in law
3. Flash not my uncle and I played with Blues Cowboys for seven years, can you tell me who edited this ? Just curios and hope you don't change my edit. The bulk is great.
4. I don't have a live album, pat capocci's album was called Deliquent Beat.

User:1.152.96.12 has supplied no sources for the deletions, which include removing the following information:

1. Full name is Ezra Lee Matzenik, see APRA (current source [1]) where this is the registered song writer of most of Lee's solo material.
2. Lee's father is Ed Matzenik. See this quote: "MULTI-TASKING: Ed’s son, Ezra Lee – who usually is only seen behind the keyboards – shows some of the style he learnt from his uncle, Flash Sheedy, in Johnny Green’s Blues Cowboys." at Rose (current source [4])
3. His uncle is Flash Sheedy. See above quote.
4. Played with Blues Cowboys for six years: "at 14 he joined Johnny Green’s Blue Cowboys, where he enjoyed a six-year stint." at Forte ([2]).

I will change much of these edits back and ask User:1.152.96.12 to discus these issues here prior to deleting material which is verified by independent reliable sources.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:02, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

6 November 2015 edits by User:Ezra Lee

According to Special:Contributions/Ezra Lee, on 6 November 2015 considerable material which was verified by independent reliable sources was deleted (much of it the same material as mentioned above). Other material was added by the same user, who claims to be Ezra Lee stating in one Edit summary that correcting a robot's version of my bio - This is Ezra Lee. Unfortunately these edits have further disrupted the article and consist of WP:Original Research. I have reverted these edits and ask the user to discus these issues here to arrive at a consensus before undertaking such disruptive editing.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:51, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi, look this is Ezra Lee and I got a woman to create this page in about 2010 who worked at Bold Jack promotions when I was in a stage show run by that company - I really don't know much about editing this properly but can someone give me a call about this ? I don't want it to say my full name - Ezra Lee is what I use as a stage name and I leave the last name out. You may have found articles online with my full name but I just don't want it associated with my bio ! That's why I take it off. What about Jimmy Barnes or Bob Dylan, why doesn't someone change there bio ? How can I prove that this is really me to you ?? A lot of info - although collected from articles from media are incorrect. So why can't it be left the way I have corrected it. Flash Sheedy is NOT - is NOT my fathers brother for example. Belive me Iknow this to be true. I have never released a live album, Ana Rose the reporter from The Northern Daily Leader in Tamworth wouldn't know anything and they just write what dates and names they want. I feel I should be able to correct this ? Or I might as well take it down completely ? Because a lot of new articles written about me refer to this page ! Thank you, Ezra Lee

Contact me on ph *phone number blocked* *email blocked* *facebook link blocked* — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezra Lee (talk • contribs) 09:55, 28 November 2015 (UTC). Tweaked by VAUGHAN J. 06:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Shaidar cuebiyar, I really am curious who you are ? I notice you have edited over 500 pages ? How do you get the time ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezra Lee (talk • contribs) 10:00, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello, at last you've replied in the appropriate venue, I have a number of points for you to consider:

1. For your own protection I strongly advise you to remove any personal phone numbers or email addresses in your commentary.
2. You claim to be "Ezra Lee", the subject of this article. As such I advise you to read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest on how to conduct yourself both on this page and in the article (or related ones, should they exist). If the page was created by someone working for your interests or at your behest, then that is also a Conflict of interest.
3. The content of this article must be written to adhere to a number of wikipedia policy documents, including Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. I have tried to follow these policies while improving it. Note that the article is not to be written as a bio by a PR – it may contain information that an artist disagrees with: provided that said information is backed by reliable sources.
4. Use of last name: as you have said it is found in numerous online sources, you acknowledge that it is part of the artist's name. The full name is verified by a reliable source, specifically, at APRA (cited above which is also in the article). I have used APRA in numerous articles to verify the full name of Australasian artists, it is the premier song writers and publishers organisation for collecting royalties of any of their recordings. Any competent article on an artist should include their full name where known: Barnes' article does have his full name as does Dylan's. The full name of Lee is given as his birth name with "Ezra Lee" as the preferred performance name (or "stage name"). Furthermore the article itself is called Ezra Lee (musician) rather than using his full name. The (musician) part is added as there exists a separate article for another person of the same name.
5. If articles written by independent reliable sources can be found then use them to support any changes you prefer. Cite the source(s) so that other editors and readers can be confident that its information has been verified. You claim that certain information is incorrect but you don't provide any such source(s) to back up these claims, if other sources are used to back up what is in the article then your changes are not supported: these changes are allowed to be reverted until they are verified by appropriate citation(s).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:41, 29 November 2015 (UTC)23:40, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
6. Rose, at source [4], provides a photo caption of the subject with the statement that "Flash" Sheedy is his uncle, elsewhere it is learnt that Sheedy's first name is Pete. I concede that Sheedy could be the uncle of Lee without being Ed's brother-in-law: I am willing to change that line in the article.
   1. I have now made this change, Sheedy is now described as Lee's uncle, which agrees with the source.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:54, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
7. You're doing your case no service by challenging the credentials of the reporter from Tamworth. Show us an alternative reliable source which deals with the matters instead.
8. As for me, I can provide you with no further information – this is not relevant to the article nor discussion of its content.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:40, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Ezra Lee - mate you should tell me who you are or some other way to contact you - I have provided my number to you to talk - like I said I didn't want my last name in the article. I will change it at an agency and then on my APRA account. How can I prove that Flash Sheedy is not my uncle ? Just fucking believe me, I don't care anymore write what you want. But here is my history if you believe me or not .. Liane Patterson is my mother, her sister is Michelle Patterson, Kay and Mal Patterson are my Grandparents. My father is Ed Matzenik and his brother David - is my uncle !! Their father was Cecil Matzenik and their mother is Adrienne Howley Matzenik. My cousin is Jed Patterson. I don't have documents on this. Pete Flash Sheedy is not related to me. I worked at his studio in Currabubula, NSW and he played guitar with me in Johnny Green's Blues Cowboys and I grew up with his daughter Elle May Sheedy - Wanita is her mother, I was in her band - my first band Wanita and The Honky Tonk Bar Dwellers. Seriously call me up if you don't belive me - I had the guts to give you my number.

I got a PR to do the article but it was my words I gave her. But now I want parts changed I feel like I can't because your 'reliable' source in the newspaper proves otherwise - then what can I say ? Just live with it. And now I don't know her I can't get rid of the page.

1. At Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons (see link above) there is information for you on Dealing with articles about yourself, including Legal issues, and How to contact the Wikimedia Foundation.
2. I believe the problems with this article can be resolved by reasoned discussion. I don't respond well to people swearing at me: try to be civil.
3. It is in your best interests to remove any overly personal information from this talkpage which you have supplied.
4. Are there any articles on "Ezra Lee" in newspapers, interviews on radio or other media that can provide back up for the matters you want changed?
5. On talkpages (such as this one), you should add your signature by typing ~~~~ after your latest commentary.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:55, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Comment July 2016

hi can someone please remove this page about me ? I didn't start it and it has false information about me and my family and my music. I'm sure there are legal issues with that, with false information ? I also can't get through on the contact email ? I'm serious about getting this page shut down.

• The above comment appears to be written by User talk:Ezra Lee (see contributions). Once again I request this user to sign his/her edits on talkpages by typing ~~~~ Also indicated above are directions for dealing with articles about oneself.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:18, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

December 2016 edits

According to article history a run of edits by User talk:Ezra Lee piano deleted some of the same material referred to above. Again, no reliable sources were supplied. I have reverted those edits.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:55, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: No comment yet as to the content changes, but please be aware that WP:BLPPRIVACY requires that we consider the privacy of the living individual before posting their full name and date of birth. If the information has not been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object, then we should omit the information in favor of the living person's privacy. The source for the full name seems relatively obscure (you actually have to do a search through a database), and the I only did a cursory glance at the two sources for the birthday, but I don't think I saw the date and one of them was a Blogspot blog (which may be unreliable per WP:SELFPUBLISH). I have to log off now, but just posting this here as my initial thoughts about this. Mz7 (talk) 15:11, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

@Mz7: Replies:

1. In what way is APRA a relatively obscure source? It is the premier registering authority for song writers/composers from Australasia. The artist provided his full name to the association, and its publicly accessible and searchable database, for the purposes of ensuring due credit for his works. Original works that are published under his performance name carry his full name as their composer. By deleting this ref, where is the verification that the artist is a song writer?
2. Currently the article provides the artist's full name but it is awkwardly split in two parts: his performance name is given and a sentence later his father's name provides the artist's last name. The same information is available on the artist's new official website.
3. His full name is given in other third party sources, e.g. a review of Motor Head Baby here.
4. WP:DOB tells us that "If the subject complains about the inclusion of the date of birth, or the person is borderline notable, err on the side of caution and simply list the year."
   1. Has the subject officially complained? Various editors on this article claimed to be the artist, some provided a lot of personal information: far more than what is in the main article. I'm not aware that any of these editors have been recognised as official.
   2. In any case why was year of birth removed? The policy above allows year of birth (including Category) information to be supplied.
   3. The artist's official website provides a link to a FaceBook page where a poster named Ezra Lee responded to well-wishers for his 30th birthday, last year. This supports the use of his year of birth and WP:DOB allows this since "sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object".
   4. His year of birth may be determined from third party sources where they gives his age in a particular year; eg: 23 in 2009 here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:23, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: Thanks for your detailed response. I think you bring up some good points, and I would treat my edits as preliminary removals of what I believed to be potentially sensitive information under WP:BLP. I'm open to restoring the information once the circumstances are clarified.

1. What I meant by "relatively obscure" was not that the ARPA organization was relatively obscure, but the position of the information itself in their database. The red flag for me was the instructions in the citation directing the reader to input search terms. This may fall under WP:BLPPRIMARY, which cautions against the use of primary sources to support biographical content, especially those that include personal details like a subject's full name. While ARPA database is certainly an authoritative source on the matter, it is not necessarily the most visible (does the average individual commonly look up information in this database?), and the spirit of the BLP policy is that we shouldn't draw undue attention to these less visible sources if the individual is not well-known. Regarding verification as to whether the subject is a songwriter, couldn't that also be done through secondary sources that report on the songs that Lee has written?
2. With that being said, you are correct that the inclusion of the father's name already attaches the name "Matzenik" to the subject, so omitting it may be worthless.
3. I'm not sure how reliable "thebettajivereview.com" is, but if the full name has been widely published by other reliable sources then I'm okay with restoring it per policy. I would be interested in seeking a third opinion on whether the full name should be included, and I would defer to whatever the third opinion is.
4. Regarding the date of birth.
   1. I do see a bunch of edits that appear to be from the subject in the page's history. I can't say whether there has been an official complaint, but we should strive to have the highest quality sourcing in any case.
   2. I removed the entire date of birth, including the year, because it didn't seem to be verified by either of the citations provided: [1][2]. Had one of these sources mentioned a year, I probably would've kept the year.
   3. Using the Facebook posts to infer the subject's birth year is a creative solution, but that approaches too closely to the edge of original research for my comfort, since they are primary sources that imply a conclusion but don't directly state it. Are there any sources that explicitly state the subject's birth year?
   4. According to the top of that Nucountry.com.au article you linked, it appeared to actually have been published in 2011; the 2009 refers to the year in which he released his debut album. Again, while we have an age, it's not explicit what his birth year is, nor is it entirely clear when this source was written, so I am hesitant to use this source too.

I hope this helps clarify my thought process. I'll try to do some digging when I have time this weekend to find more sources, and I'm open to seeking a third opinion on the full name issue. Mz7 (talk) 05:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

April 2017

@Mz7: Its been more than two months since the last response above but there is no indication that User:Mz7 has checked on the details indicated. I believe the year of birth is allowed according to WP:DOB. I believe the artist has acknowledged that Matzenik is his birth name but prefers to perform using his first two names only. I believe these details should be returned to the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:38, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: At this point, having refreshed my memory of this issue, I'd be okay with returning the full name to the article, given the sources available. I'm more hesitant about the date of birth because we still do not have a source that explicitly verifies what it even is. The best we have are Facebook posts from people who aren't the subject, which are rather sketchy sources for an encyclopedia. Mz7 (talk) 00:05, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

What about the year of birth?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:42, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: Do you have a source that explicitly verifies the year of birth? Mz7 (talk) 01:33, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

@Mz7: Aside from the sources above?

1. RockabillyNerd's interview "Ezra Lee Q&A Rockabilly Pianos and Dangerous Beasts", Ezra says that he's 30 in 2016.
2. H Thomas' interview for Melbourne Roots "Impromptu Interview with Newcastle's Ezra Lee", where Ezra says "Fifteenth of the tenth, eighty-six."
3. Nu Country preview "Ezra Lee – Pianist – Not Submariner", where we have "Ezra, 23, cut his debut solo album in 2009 at Graham Thomas's Preston studio in the North-western Melbourne suburb Pascoe Vale."

Tying these together, I see no reason why we can't give his birth year as 1986.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:07, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: I did some digging, and it looks like Lee has multiple Facebook accounts. He has one here which explicitly verifies "October 15, 1986". This is what I was looking for. It explicitly states, "Born on October 15, 1986" and is connected to the subject on a public page, so it can be reasonably inferred that the subject does not object to its publication. Given this, I have gone ahead and restored the full date of birth as October 15, 1986.

As a side note, being 30 in 2016 could mean he was born in either 1986 or 1985, depending on whether his birth date had passed or not. Mz7 (talk) 21:38, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

May 2017 edits

@Mz7:, @Ezra Lee: I have reverted recent edits by User:Ezra Lee. That editor removed considerable material in a similar manner to @Ezra Lee piano:, @ELofficial: and @1.152.96.12:. Other than Mz7, each of these users have claimed that they are the subject of this article. Once again I advise these editors to read Dealing with articles about yourself.

User:Ezra Lee's recent edit summaries indicated a desire for editors to contact the claimant directly via email prior to reverting those edits. I did not do so. I believe the proper place to deal with these matters is this talk page where interested editors may provide their understanding of the situation. I ask User:Ezra Lee (and any other claimant) to provide their rationale here and wait for consensus to be reached prior to making the changes being requested.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:28, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

May 2024 edits

@Mz7 and Pianohands86: the second named user has edited this talk page and removed some of my comments here without my consent. I have returned my commentary and those of another editor, User:Ezra lee, (although I deleted some of that user's personal contact details). I ask that User:Pianohands86 declare their connection to Ezra Lee: all their edits are either at the article or here on the talk page. Back in July 2021 they deleted some of the same material described above. Some of those edits by User:Pianohands86 were correctly reverted by another editor Materialscientist.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)