Talk:Extended-range bass

Alright, I wrote this article on the subject of ERBs. I think it deserves its own article, and I don't think it should be merged into Bass Guitar, because the ERB is as much, and more, a different instrument from the bass guitar as the 7-string guitar is to the six-string, or the acoustic bass guitar to the electric bass guitar (both of which have their own articles).

• Are you sure about the "octave lower than a normal bass" thingamagig in the article intro? For what it's worth, the lower E string would be pretty much useless (being mostly below the range of human hearing). --Tirolion 06:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Raw text to be worked into article

Note: Some of the names,dates and facts are the opion of the author of the text above. For instance,the 6 string bass was in existance in 1960. The low B string was first used on the Chapman Stick in 1974.Was Fodera building basses in 1975? If so, where is the 1975 Fodera 6-string? If this is about history,how did custom bass builders add an F# and C# string? Where did those strings come from and why? The 10-string bass may have nearly the same range as a grand piano,but the 97 note ,12-string bass DOES have the same range as a grand piano.Only one exists.Why isn't it mentioned? The bass guitar had 6 strings for over 40 years. Why is the person(s) who introduced the conept of 7 plus strings on a bass guitar in the 1980's left out? Could it be certain manufacturers would like to re-write history? Some feel that Wikipedia is going to loose validity because writers like the one who wrote the above article haven't done enough research. There is a paper trail that documents the begining of the 4 and one half octave bass guitars....and it has nothing to do with the "History" at the top of this page.Unless you have first hand knowledge of these elements,why write about this subject?

[This should be in discussion, and not the actual article itself]

Correction to what you wrote above: Actually, two 12 string ERBs exist: Yves Carbonne plays a fretless, and Garry Goodman plays a fretted. 69.116.201.54 (talk) 12:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually three 12 string ERBs exist. The 1st one being Garry Goodman's, which was build by luthier Mike Adler. The 2nd one is Jean Baudin's, bassist for the band Nuclear Rabbit, which was built by JP Basses. The 3rd one is Yves Carbonne's, which is fretless and was built by Barcelona luthier Jerzy Drozd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by THSL (talk • contribs) 19:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Criticisms by an anonymous editor

note: this term "double tapping" and some of the content of this entire article are not considered valid by some of those who developed these instruments.This page is not a reliable and accurate source of information regarding extended range bass guitars and applicable techniques..

[This also belongs in the discussion page and not the actual article itself]

" Warning: some of this text may be wrong and is serving as an advertisiement for certain manufacturers who are revisionists. "

[Ditto]

Whoever you are, two things I feel I must tell you: 1. Please stop vandalizing the wiki. Notes such as yours belong in Discussion. 2. This page was never intended to be the final word on all things ERB. A wiki is designed as collaborative, so that multiple editors can fill in the information that others lack. By all means, add information to the article, correct errors, etc. And for the record, your accusations of revisionist manufacturers leaves me confused. What exactly are you trying to say? I am not, nor ever have been affiliated with any bass manufacturers.

• Fodera? Perhaps Carl Tompson,but he was know for the piccolo bass in 1975.No mention of a low B 6 string back then. B-C tuning didn't expand the range, it simply lowered the 6 string tuning down a 4th. The first bass guitar to include a low B and retain e,a,d,g,c,f on top was a customs built Tobias in the form of a 7 string bass around 1987 or 1988.This was the first extended range bass. The bassist who had comissoned it had been trying to get a 7 string bass built for about 7 years prior to this one.Several other bassists used low B strings in the 1970's.

CONFLICT OF INTEREST ALERT: 121.220.36.117

Note this was discussed at the conflict of interest noticeboard here Smartse (talk) 15:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

User 121.220.36.117 is a suspected sock-puppet. He is targeting Carbonne specifically (look at his talk page). Information was added by an independent source, and he continues to revert it. I was falsely accused of having a COI re: my contributions about Carbonne. Now, a person who I don't know has added valid information, and 121.220.36.117 continues to revert it, for obvious spurious reasons. I would like an admin to review this, as it seems this person has a large conflict of interest. And this is NOT the "Garry Goodman" page, where his name has been repeated ad nauseum over and over again (6 TIMES WITH NO REFERENCES!). Garry Goodman is NOT a notable extended range bassist. Yves Carbonne is, and has numerous supporting links to prove it.

That's ridiculous! I don't have any conflict of interest at all when it comes to musicians, this musician, or even the general topic of "music". You, on the other hand, have a significant conflict of interest and shouldn't be edit warring over getting him into articles. The only reason I have removed your sections about Carbonne is that I've read the deletion discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yves Carbonne and the discussions on the talk pages like Talk:Bass_guitar#Addition_of_Bassists_and_Bands_2 and I see absolutely no support for including this information, quite the opposite actually, and so I remove it. And it's been removed by a number of editors, not just me, but it's been restored only be you. I would be very grateful if you would stop trying to bully me, threatening me, and accusing me of crazy things simply because I have reverted your edits. Thank you. 121.220.36.117 (talk) 15:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

You most certainly DO have a COI, and you are guilty of editing abuse, vandalism and edit warring. In fact, I suspect that you either are him or a rep the unnotable, unsupported bassist you keep re-adding here, whose name is on this page an astonishing 6 times, with NO SOURCES. I am not bullying YOU, it is quite the opposite. You stalk Carbonne all over this site, and remove him from everywhere you see him. I am not the person, nor do I know the person, who contributed the last information. You have even gone so far to add that the low notes on Carbonne's bass are not audible, and that Garry Goodman's bass has more notes. REALLT - WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING? You have added gushing information about Garry Goodman, who is DEFINITELY NOT NOTABLE, NOR DOES HE HAVE A FAN BASE 1/100TH THE SIZE OF CARBONNE'S. You should really stop stalking him. I will take this as far as need be. You are the one who is a bully, a vandal and a stalker. You didn't remove ANY information about any other bassists except Carbonne. Telling, isn't it? Please get your jealousy in check. It is clear that your vicious editing will be monitored from now on. TruthBeTold (talk) 17:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Also, let it be noted: the last Carbonne information has not been removed by a "number of editors" as you claim - ONLY YOU. TruthBeTold (talk) 17:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

And PS... You removed contributions from an editor completely independent of me. I have NO IDEA who that editor is, but, I am grateful that he added information be shared with the public about a recognized innovator who conceived the sub-bass and plays the lowest register in the world, and the only 12 string fretless sub-bass. Yes, I am thankful for that. And guess what? I am sure there will be many more, because to leave Carbonne's contributions to the future of the bass off of this site (because of obvious, undue jealousy) is a travesty. I have no COI whatsoever. I just appreciate great musicians. I see you vandalized Michael Manrings page as well, removing Carbonne from a compilation he did in 2005 with Manring & DiPiazza. Who do you think you are? And for the record, YOU are the one who removed valid references supporting the Carbonne additions on this page. You did NOT, however, add any links to contribute to supporting information on here, didn't delete anyone else on here, nor did you alter any other bassists. Your motives are clearly suspect. Anyone reviewing history can clearly see that. Stop your vandalism immediately. You have now vandalized 2 completely independent editors.TruthBeTold (talk) 17:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

FYI, Garry Goodman is notable as a Höfner fretless player. They list him recording with Robert John, Thelma Houston,The Fifth Dimension, Big Joe Turner, Little Anthony, Jimmy Rogers, Frankie Avalon, and The Penguins. Just a sanity check here... Binksternet (talk) 17:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

FYI, Carbonne is a noted Jerzy Drozd fretless player. What is your point, once again?? Look up the google hits on Carbonne vs. Garry Goodman (only Garry Goodman the bassist - subtract all those hits that refer to other people with his name), if you want to turn this into a competition, which it should not be. He has little or no fan base (look on myspace, youtube (where he doesn't allow anyone to add comments or ratings to his videos), and look on Carbonne's own website, in Carbonne's forum: Goodman constantly uses Carbonne's OWN forum to nauseatingly promote himself. http://www.yvescarbonne.com/ It's pathetic. So, yeah, he is not notable. The reference you provided does not support notability. And it's funny - you keep predictably coming back to attack Carbonne, just as 121.220.36.117 does. Interesting.TruthBeTold (talk) 17:55, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I chose that reference for Goodman because it is not something he put up himself. It honestly establishes him as a noted Höfner fretless player. That's all I'm saying. I don't care about his actions elsewhere, or about a comparison of blogs and forums which are unusable as references. Your comment "And it's funny - you keep predictably coming back to attack Carbonne, just as 121.220.36.117 does" means what, exactly? Are you accusing me of meat puppetry? That's a laugh. I never heard of Carbonne or Goodman before this tempest in a teapot spilled over into an article I was keeping an eye on. I have much better things to do with my Wiki time than referee a pissing match such as this. Carbonne's notability was established by the article in Bass Musician; an appropriately small note about him should remain in this article. Goodman's achievements should also have an appropriately small presence here, without such unprovable assertions as "His latest generation of bass strings do not require any special speakers to be heard clearly." I am guessing this would mean that the strings have a high degree of harmonic content and a relatively low degree of fundamental tone—not something I'd be promoting as an extended range string maker. There's far too much Goodman material in 121's version of this page. All that detail should go into a notional Garry Goodman page. Binksternet (talk) 18:53, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

So what if Gary Goodman plays a Hofner fretless? Everyone has to play something, no? Point is, something is clearly askew here. You keep popping up like a pimple wherever I go. And if you don't know who Carbonne or Goodman are (like you say), maybe you shouldn't be editing pages with content so unfamiliar to you.TruthBeTold (talk) 23:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I do just fine editing pages containing information previously unfamiliar to me. I feel that a fresh approach is sometimes necessary to relieve a logjam of partisan editors. If I decide to help out here, Carbonne and Goodman will both get a small mention. Binksternet (talk) 17:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Binksternet, please don't be misled by TLCBass. I am not a partisan in this matter. I am not in anyway connected to Gary Goodman or any other musician. I don't care either way about Goodman or Carbonne and don't care if either, neither or both end up being mentioned in this article or others. I am only concerned with the integrity of Wikipedia and I object to TLCBass deciding and enforcing what information Wikipedia will host about Carbonne when she has previously admitted to being here at his direction. She is a SPA (100% of her edits are devoted to trying to enforce content on Carbonne) with a COI. I have never added any information about Goodman to any page of Wikipedia - it was another editor who added that information and it just happened to be in the previous version when I reverted TLCBass's edits. I don't have a special preference for that version of the article. I don't have a problem with an experienced and uninvested editor making a content decision regarding this matter and if you feel that it would be appropriate to include mention of Carbonne and/or Goodman, there will be no objections from me. So please feel free to go ahead with editing if you feel inclined. 121.220.36.117 (talk) 14:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Understood! Thanks for the note. Binksternet (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

As you stated above, you "feel". That is your opinion. The one sentence put on here about Carbonne is factual - and important to the information shared on the subject. Period. It is not up to 'you' whether Carbonne or Goodman get a "small mention". That's a bit arrogant. You said you don't know either one of them above. Then, why such a fervent interest? And why are you following me around posting after me all over the place? Sorry, your motives suspect.TruthBeTold (talk) 12:22, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't have a dog in this hunt. I have no motives to suspect. Your sense that I'm following you around stems from the fact that I was keeping an eye on Bass guitar when this Carbonne conundrum came to the fore in several articles at once. Once I identify an editor whose additions are problematic, I check out their other work to see if anything needs to be adjusted or reverted. I make no apologies for looking into your "TLCbass" editing history, or into the history of User:THSL, 58.164.114.58, 121.214.55.120, or 69.116.201.54. This is a normal activity for a careful editor. Binksternet (talk) 16:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll make this short & sweet 121... You are the stalker. You follow me around, not vice-versa. And the person who put in the last entries about Carbonne is obviously a luthier. I have no COI. I am not viciously following you around on a mission to delete your entries. You are on a mission to delete mine, a luthier's (who I don't know) and any entries about Carbonne. I am just fed up with your stalking. And there are many people who are (with good reason) jealous of Carbonne, because they don't understand his instruments, because they require higher intelligence and technique not possessed by the majority of bassists to play. And I am sure you are seeking anonymity for personal reasons, and I am sure those reasons are spurious. And myspace is THE standard for song plays (used by the recording industry). Go find a French instrumentalist who has more song plays than Carbonne - you can't. For someone who claims they don't have a COI, you have taken an obsessive interest in making sure he doesn't have info available to the public on here. I am firm in my belief that you are either a sock puppet or meat puppet, and that is soley based on your stalking behavior. TruthBeTold (talk) 13:32, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a major case of the pot calling the kettle black (or trying to, as I can't discern any COI on the part of the IP). I think that the version of the contested section prior to TLCbass's edits should be restored, as the edits appear to be promoting someone whose article was deleted on notability grounds, and their comments at the COIN noticeboard actually suggested they believed Myspace was a suitable source for measuring popularity. Orderinchaos 03:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, The article should mention Garry Goodman and not Yves Carbonne. Smartse (talk) 13:50, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Even though Yves Carbonne has an astronomically larger fan base, substantially more references, is praised all over every bass forum online, has been recognized by the International Institute of Bassists, has been reviewed and interviewed several times in Bass Musician Magazine, has been reviewed in Bass Player Magazine, etc. And Gary Goodman has not. Interesting.

Furthermore, to go into Michael Manring's page, and actually remove part of HIS discography because you all apparently have a vendetta in play here, is reprehensible. Perhaps I will write to Michael Manring and let him know that you have defaced HIS page, IP121. There is something VERY underhanded going on here, about the viciousness involved of people ganging up to remove Carbonne. It is actually sick. I am not ruining my holiday arguing with you people who are evidently clueless re: the bass world. I will wait until the luthier whose entries you removed, 121, has a say in this. He's probably just disgusted at what he sees, and doesn't want to bother arguing with you people. And if Carbonne's fans get wind of what is going on here, you can be sure you will be hearing from them as well. Really, at this point, what you are all doing is just plain twisted. I have better things to do with my time than getting aggravated arguing with people who are obviously involved personally in making sure that Carbonne is not on here, i.e. persecuted (because of clear conflict of interest... I suppose that is why you are all turning everything around, and accusing me of a COI) and promoting Gary Goodman, who has apparently taken over the page as his personal promo page, although he has few if any fans out there. But it's apparently OK that his name is mentioned a whopping 6 times on there - without ONE source! At this point, I am all out of tact. I suspect there are several sock/meat puppets involved, several people with a COI, and I think there is something VERY wrong going on here. And if the shoe fits, wear it. In fact, what you all are doing by outing a notable, widely respected artist, and preventing interested parties from accessing information about him on this particular site, is just out and out perverse. So keep promoting metalheads and Garry Goodman and out widely respected artists with huge fan bases, and see how quickly your credibility as a site goes down the tubes. Perhaps you should have read the articles I wasted my time putting on here for your review, instead of finding excuses as to why you couldn't because your internet connections didn't work. If this wasn't so pathetic, it would be laughable. TLCbass (talk) 18:50, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I've added back the Garry Goodman info from a previous edit. I'll leave it to other editors to decide whether the info is correct. Smartse (talk) 15:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I've copyedited the whole article, getting rid of redundancy, peacock and promotional bits. I added fact tags to three of the history paragraphs. Binksternet (talk) 15:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you both for working on the article. I'm grateful it is been copy edited in full by people not connected with the artists. 124.181.137.158 (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Article protected for three days

The troubles on this article have come to the attention of admins, and have led to the full protection of this article. Try to work out the conflicts here on the Talk page, and convince the other editors. Information that can be backed up by reliable sources (not just personal opinions) has precedence. A number of participants in the edit war could wind up being sanctioned if the war continues when protection expires. If you want to complain about conflict of interest, do so over at WP:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard. This page is for discussing what material should go in the article, not the weaknesses or poor judgment of the other editors here. EdJohnston (talk) 23:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Then why don't you tell the people who have no idea what they are talking about to stay off of here? There is NOTHING on the web to support ANYTHING on this page OTHER THAN the Carbonne information. This is a joke. TLCbass (talk) 19:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Alot of personal opinions I am reading here but here's the facts Garry Goodman is the creator of the 12 string bass.Yves buys his high string from Garry.Garry invented the string and the 8 octave guitar concept. They seem to be friends. Garry Goodman is a top ten artist,and nominated for best new artist in 2005 on the international charts for NPR. His bass playing is heard everywhere from super markets to hundereds of radio staions world wide. His ERB CD Tap Dance On A Cloud ranked #15 most played in 2005 on NewAgeReported.com for the year Yves air play is virtually non-existant. Garry has a non-bass player fan bass that is huge. Someone needs to get all the facts. MySpace "friends" and "hits" don't reflect CD sales and downloads. All posts I have read have been Garry Goodman clarifying his idea which began with the 7 string bas,clearly his idea. If anyone can't heaar how Goodman uses his basses compared to yves they should not ever comment.They are both great playrs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.175.81.100 (talk) 22:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

The Lowest Note

I took out text referring to "the lowest note", not because I don't think Carbonne achieved this, but because I think NOBODY can achieve this. There is no lowest note. Binksternet (talk) 12:48, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Look here ---> http://www.jerzydrozdbasses.com/legendX.htm http://www.jerzydrozdbasses.com/yvescarbonne.htm

Do us ALL a favor: you wrote above: "you think". Stick to the FACTS only. NOTHING else on this page, EXCEPT the Carbonne information is substantiated, or can be substantiated outside of anything other than blogs or personal websites, which is NOT the case with Carbonne, who you are persecuting relentlessly and viciously. He is the ONLY one on this page with reliable sources other than his own web page. Because YOU think it cannot be achieved does not mean it is so. Leave it to people who know what they are talking about, and keep your personal opinions off of here. They do not belong here. Stop your hate and STICK TO THE FACTS.TLCbass (talk) 19:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

"lowest" appears in neither of your links. --Onorem♠Dil 19:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Lowest note - to date - played on an ERB is Low B on the Legend XII. In the world. Bar none. The only one. What don't you get??? It is also mentioned here: http://www.bass-musician-magazine.com/General/bass-musician-magazine-masthead-detail.asp?directory-id=807599636I am not here to give you music lessons. This is an article on ERBs and he plays the lowest. PERIOD. Find one lower, and waste your own time instead of mine.

Pathetic that you are ALL tearing up the ONLY substantiated info in the ENTIRE article, and paying NO MIND to the fact that NOTHING ABOUT GARRY GOODMAN CAN BE SUPPORTED FROM WEB SITES OTHER THAN HIS OWN, OR BLOGS. This is reckless that Wikipedia isn't doing something about this. TLCbass (talk) 20:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Again, I'm not seeing where this statement is explicitly made in any of your references. Please post the specific sentence that backs up the claim. --Onorem♠Dil 20:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

If any statement about lowest note is to appear here, it will need to be worded in a very specific style and supported by a very specific reference. Binksternet (talk) 21:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, there is no "lowest range possible". Frequencies can keep going lower and lower until we're talking about seconds per cycle rather than cycles per second. The ridiculously inutile low frequency notes that have been reached are already outside of normal human hearing. Why argue about who has gone farther outside of human hearing? Is the audience elephants and whales? Binksternet (talk) 00:19, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Notable Players

There are several bassists in the Notable players section that do not have pages on Wikipedia. Wouldn't this make them non-notable, therefore needing to be removed from the section? — Tha†emoover†here (talk) 23:15, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

nah, nonsense

I don't know whether to ascribe this article to lunacy, or merely failed logic.

I'm a semi-pro bassist. There is NOTHING "notable" about a five-string bass. Six-string? Nope, still nothing to write home about -- the few players I know who lug them onstage play almost entirely as if those outlier strings aren't there; I suspect they chose these mostly to look cool.

Increasing string count on a bass adds size AND weight much more rapidly than with a guitar. Six strings or more and a player has to begin modifying technique to compensate for the sheer bulky span of the fingerboard. However, the general playing style remains identifiably the same as for a four-string bass.

I know a guy who's a virtuoso with his seven-string. However, when he shows off, his right-hand style clearly derives from Chet Atkins, so it'd be MUCH more reasonable to call this fingerstyle guitar. Again, not of itself notable.

As this article is "extended-range bass" rather than "lots-of-strings bass," it's a glaring oversight to not mention how some of us reworked (a decade ago!) our standard basses to B-E-A-D. This leads me to question the credentials of the primary author, and to look closely at ALL claims.

Finally, if it's "notability" we want, where do we put Mark Sandman's TWO-string bass...?
Weeb Dingle (talk) 17:17, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

History seems to be making the implied case that only luthiers and custom bass builders even attempted to reach beyond four strings, even after mentioning the mid-'50s Danelectro and the mid-'60s Fender. The article should better have a (substantiated!) note as to about when the five-string bass started to become commercially available as a standard model from major brands; Fender certainly had a Jazz V as early as 1990.

Speaking of Fender, I'm rather certain that despite its name, the Fender Bass VI was actually a baritone guitar. I'd tend to agree, only because I once played a 1963, and it did NOT handle at all like a bass.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 18:32, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I've removed the tentative reference to Twelve-string bass, which I'm guessing means the "Cheap Trick" Hamer. Like the "eight-string" Ampeg before it, these basses each have four courses, therefore "extended range" requires quite a stretch.

Likewise, Nine-string bass had no examples offered.

At the beginning of Construction and tuning, I cut

While the extended-range bass instruments are built using the same design methods as the more traditional electric bass, some performers view it as an entirely new instrument, since its expanded range permits high-register melodies, four- and five-note chords, and other techniques.

because it's fanboy arm-waving that has nothing to do with construction OR tuning. And unsupported. And written like original research.

As for the whole

Usually, extended-range basses are tuned in fourths…

section, this is a pile of unsubstantiated claims, right from that first damnable word. Next up against the wall.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 18:32, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Further thoughts on how this "article" fails the cut.

The extended-range bass (or ERB) term appears to derive from extended-range guitar/ERG. Speaking as a gearhead, ERG is not commonly used among players, who much more commonly would say something like "I play an eight"; it's therefore easy to infer that ERB is even less common (in my area, there seems to be at least twenty guitarists for every bassist).

Shouldn't the title be Extended-range electric bass guitar seeing as (a) they are all solid-body electrics, and (b) this article is a dubious spin-off from Bass guitar?

Curiously, though there is List of extended-range guitar players (the usual fanboy stuff), there is no Extended-range electric guitar, rather spawning a bunch of hellish Morlocks: Seven-string guitar, Eight-string guitar, Nine-string guitar, Ten-string guitar.

Both Extended-range guitar and Extended-range classical guitar throw you out of the car at Classical guitar with additional strings, which is glaringly wrong: Where does that leave Extended-range electric guitar and Extended-range steel-string acoustic guitar? I bring this up here because it calls to question why the article isn't properly titled Electric bass guitar with additional strings.

As a side-note, Keith Richards has long been perhaps the most prominent player of the five-string electric guitar, yet Five-string guitar is just a half-arsed disambig that tries to convince the hapless W'pedia user he REALLY wants Five-string banjo or Extended-range bass. Awesome.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 15:35, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm afraid you have misunderstood "notable" in Wikipedia standards for the word "notable" in everyday use. The fact that five and six string basses are regularly manufactured and used makes them more notable for encyclopedic use, because they will have written documentation. Mark Sandman's bass is less notable! because it's just one semi-famous guy who didn't even alter the bass, he just left off two strings without inspiring many others to do the same. Note I love Sandman in the bands Morphine and Treat Her Right, and he is notable in the sense of exceptional, and a fair amount has been written about him, even a documentary movie was made of him. But Wikipedia is not looking for just exceptional, we're looking for quotable and published material about! On Wikipedia, "notable" is usually meant in the sense that there's enough published reports and opinions, particularly when the issue is whether the subject merits a separate article. This article already has too many listings of famous and semi-famous bassists with their custom rigs, without enough citations. It would be much better to include published material from manufacturers with sales numbers and boring statistics to explain how common and widespread "extended-range basses" are. It would be great to expand on history, and more about Anthony Jackson's statements about 6-string bass and his efforts to get his made, again not because it's exceptional, or even that he was one of the first; but because his ideas influenced a lot of other bass players and together with Thompson; inspired other bass makers and this has been written about (and in documentary videos). I hope this clears up some misunderstanding. Tumacama (talk) 00:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Weeb Dingle. I wrote a response to your July 2017 post about "notability", sorry if placement is clumsy. I'm puzzled at your "side-note" above. I'm not clear what you are saying. I guess a humorous complaint that "5-string guitar" re-directs? Also, unless there's multiple published, quotable sources about how Keith Richard inspired other to either build or play five-string guitars, it doesn't matter that he played one. There needs to be citations from reliable sources, it doesn't matter how famous the players are, or how many famous players play the instrument in question, or when (if they were first), at least those things matter only so far that there's been articles written about them and their instruments.Tumacama (talk) 00:08, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

History

The "History" section could benefit from some info on scale length. Danelectro and Fender Six were 30", Anthony Jackson had 35" and 36" instruments built for him IIRC, and I believe someone even played a 40" instrument, but I can't remember where I heard about that. Scale length, and the lack of "proper" string spacing for comfortable fingerstlye playing, is what sets the earlier "six-string-basses" so far apart from the modern concept of a 6-string bass, that many bass players won't categorize them as a bass at all. Recently they are sometimes more regarded, or even marketed, as baritone guitars, or indeed thought of as a category of their own. --BjKa (talk) 14:13, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Just noticed the comment by user:Weeb Dingle 18:32, 4 July 2017 above.

I agree that musicians have often used the Fender Six more like a baritone guitar, but even more often it has been used as an additional bass voice. (Research "tic-tac bass" and "Run like Hell"...)

I disagree that it can't be called a "bass", just because it doesn't feel like a modern six-string bass. At the time shortscale basses were much more common, and six-string basses didn't exist at all. It's like saying the Benz Motorwagen was not a "car" because it doesn't have four wheels, steering wheel, fuel injection or turbocharger. That's just the way it was invented back then, and what we accept as standard today has developed from that significantly.

But if someone invents something, and sells it commercially for the first time, who are you to say, that it can't "be" what he intended it to be, or what he chose to call it? (No personal attack intended. Just trying to be precise about what words mean.)

--BjKa (talk) 14:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)