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Archive 1

Official Selections at Film Festivals and Awards

I kept Film Festival Official Selections and other awards in the same section when I changed the Awards section to a table format. I think they should be separated though. It is questionable whether selections for film festivals are even notable enough for this article. 68.229.83.172 (talk) 13:30, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi, the previous was written by me - I'm logged in this time! I'm going to go ahead and make the edit to separate Notable Sceenings from Honours & Awards. Thanks. A L T E R C A R I 21:44, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

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Lead?

Altercari: You reverted my addition of the subject's birth name and year to the lead because it "didn't make the article better." When such information is given elsewhere in an article, our guidelines instruct that it should also be given in the lead as well. See MOS:BLPLEAD; MOS:FULLNAME. (Per MOS:LEGALNAME, it appears I got the order wrong, but the effect is the same.)

What is your justification for deviating from the guidelines in this case? Rebbing 14:58, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello!
I do think this is an unusual case. Lust is a female feminist pornographer. WP:BLP policy makes much of privacy, and while my preferred version of the lead does not stem from any particular policy, I think the spirit of the policy is to be cautious in use of real names. Lust is clearly not trying to hide her real name, but she is a living person in a controversial field, whose notability is entirely linked to her assumed name. Given the two other mentions of her real name in the article, I think my preferred version represents a minimal level of caution.
If you remain unconvinced, do feel free to change it back. Precedent is clearly with you.
—A L T E R C A R I  ✍ 15:15, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for your explanation. I get where you're coming from, and I'm a staunch supporter of WP:BLPPRIVACY, but I don't see how removing her birth name from the lede makes a difference from a privacy standpoint since it's shown in the infobox and prominently given in the article's first section. My intuition is that it should be all or none, since (I imagine) any harm that could come from her real name being placed here—people looking at this article to uncover personal details or people searching for her real name and finding out about her career—would occur whether or not the name is in the lead. But I might be wrong about that. And, right or wrong, I'm happy to defer to your choice here given your understandable concern and the triviality of this style rule. Rebbing 17:21, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
I think this is the pleasantest conversation I've ever had on this website! —A L T E R C A R I  ✍ 18:25, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

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Use of her own website as a reference

We need to be very careful to follow WP:BLPSELFPUB when thinking of using her own website as a reference. We'd be best off not using it at all, with the possible exception of using it to expand upon information verified by a far better reference. --Hipal (talk) 16:36, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hipal: Which part of what I've just added supposedly 'appears to grossly fail BLP criteria'? Could you be more specific please? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:36, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't see how the book is reliable. It might help if you could identify the specific page(s), quote at length from them, and summarize the context for the information. --Hipal (talk) 17:46, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I did. It's page 119. I linked to it, you can read it yourself as a preview. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:51, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't understand what your objection is. Is it so unbelievable that Lust read a book in the late 1990s that later influenced her work? Does it defy credibility that she moved to Barcelona in 2000 and started studying filmmaking there? And why would such statements be 'promotional'? Neither of those are saying how great she or her work is, or anything like that. It seems to me that these are rather mundane and uncontroversial claims. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:16, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
I missed the page number. Thanks.
I cannot access it, which is why I asked. I was unable to access it from any of the editions I could find. --Hipal (talk) 19:19, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
You're aware of who Goop (company) is? Ultra-heavy pr, with a reputation for ignoring facts. They're not close to the quality required for BLP info. --Hipal (talk) 19:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
The text is right there for everyone to read. Lust is quoted as saying: '...after graduating, I moved to Barcelona and started studying filmmaking. I read Linda Williams's book Hard Core...'. I am aware of Goop's reputation, but this book was published by Hachette, not Goop. Besides, what's the relevance of Goop's reputation to the claim that Lust read a book in the late 1990s? Seems like guilt by association to me. You've not answered my questions why these claims are so dubious that they shouldn't be mentioned on this page. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:00, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
Here's The Local: 'It was in Lust's native Sweden, while a student at Lund University, that the first seeds of her unconventional career in the adult industry were sown. “I studied Political Science and Gender Studies and was reading Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the Frenzy of the Visible by Linda Williams when I had my 'lightbulb moment'.' Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:05, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
De Standaard says the same behind paywall in Dutch: 'Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the Frenzy of the Visible, het boek van Berkeley-professor Linda Williams, hielp me over mijn schaamte en walging heen', vertelt Lust.' Les Inrockuptibles writes in French: 'Elle lit Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the Frenzy of the Visible de Linda Williams, et se dit qu’elle veut voir une autre forme de porno. C’est en 2000, lorsqu’elle déménage à Barcelone, et qu’elle travaille dans des boîtes de production, qu’elle prend conscience que si elle veut en voir, elle doit en réaliser.' So these facts are well-attested in reliable sources. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:16, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I cannot auto-translate the last two references. Google translate is being less than cooperative with them, especially Standaard.

If a source is simply quoting her, then she's the source. If a source uses their own voice, then we look at the quality of the source. The Local is quoting her. I cannot access enough of De Standaard to determine how they are presenting the information. Inrockuptibles looks ok, so using it. Thank you for finding a better source. --Hipal (talk) 23:39, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

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