Talk:Equale

Quotation from Glöggl

I removed from the article an extended quote from Franz Xaver Glöggl, with the edit summary "we can't host this here, as we don't know for sure that the translation is out of copyright (as the underlying German text from 1828 indubitably is)". That was far from clear. What I meant to say was something like "we can't host this here without attribution to the author of the translation, as we don't know for sure that it is out of copyright (as the underlying German text from 1828 indubitably is)". I'm sorry about that. Properly quoted and attributed content can be added in Wikipedia, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I'm sorry about that.

HLHJ has suggested that the quote could be added back, with his/her own translation of the German text. I've no strong objection to that, but can't help thinking that the quote serves little purpose, and would be better used as a source for a sentence or two on the function of the equale in funeral rites in Linz. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:32, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I found Justlettersandnumbers entirely clear, and also entirely correct. It was remarkably stupid of me not to think of the copyright on the translation; all apologies due are due from me. Still somewhat stupidly, I posted the original text on Justlettersandnumbers' talk page instead of here; just so anyone reading this knows what we are talking about, here is the quote with my no doubt lousy translation:

In der ersten Klasse wird bei Ankunft der Geistlichkeit durch eine kurze Trauermusik (Equal) mit Posaunen oder andern Blasinstrumented das Zeichen zur geistlichen Trauerhandlung fuer die Anwesenden gegeben, nach deren Vollendung sich der Leichenzug in bewegung sesset, welches wieder mittelst der blasenden Trauermusik angezeigt wird, mit welcher dann waerend des Zuges die Gesangmusik, die ein drei- oder vierstimmiges Misserere singet, abwechselt bis zum Eingange der Kirche oder Grabstaette, wo der Einsegnung der Vers.: Requiem aeternam, gesungen wird. Nach erfolgter Einsegnung und dem allgemeinem Gebet wird eine Trauer-Motette gesungen.(source, in blackletter, here: pp.20-21 page, record)

For first-class funerals, the arrival of the clergy will be announced by a short mourning-music (Equale) played on trombones or other wind instruments. This will mark the beginning of the funeral service. After this, the funeral procession will set out, again suitably announced by mourning music on wind instruments. During the procession, this shall be played alternately with a three- or four-voice choral Misserere until arrival at the entrance of the church or graveyard, where the benediction of the Requiem aeternam is sung. After the benediction and common prayer, a mourning motet is sung.

- Franz Xaver Glöggl, Kapellmeister of Linz Cathedral, Kirchenmusik-Ordnung (Church music regulations), 1828

There's a rather better PD description of Moravian funeral rites from a magazine:

"The cheerful, hopeful piety of the Moravian people is manifest in their burial customs. When a member of the church dies, it is announced by the tender strains of the trombone choir from the belfry of the church. While the funeral service is being held in the church, the body of the deceased lies in the Corpse House at the rear of the church. After the service, the coffin is placed on a bier and covered with a white cloth, as it is borne to the cemetery. At the grave a beautiful responsive service, participated in by the minister and the people, and with trombone accompaniment, is rendered. Amid the tall trees of the graveyard and surrounded by the graves of the departed, it is said to be a very beautiful and impressive service."

-1899 Church Review

I don't know exactly what the cultural relationship between Moravian and Austrian rites is, but I think they both involve aequales. I don't feel strongly about the inclusion of quotes; I'll go along with what others think best. HLHJ (talk) 05:31, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

This (and what is below) is interesting stuff, HLHJ, and may well be relevant here. The problem I see is finding sources that confirm the connection between your research and this little-known "micro-genre" (it seems quite possible that the genre was actually invented by Glöggl – I don't know where I read that, nor do I remember why I didn't add it to the short page I wrote about him, but probably because it wasn't reliably sourced). What I think we probably wouldn't want to do is add info that has some tangential bearing on the topic, but isn't actually linked to it in any reliable source – because that runs the risk of straying into the territory of original research. But do please proceed as you think fit. I happen to believe that in an encyclopaedia, as in architecture, "less is more", but I wouldn't want that belief to prevent others from adding relevant stuff. Best regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:40, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Justlettersandnumbers. The Moravians clearly used trombone choirs in remarkably similar ritual contexts to those of the Linz aequales. I have no source for what they called the musical pieces, though, or any explicitly drawing the parallel. The Moravian trombone choir tradition, and its use at funerals, dates from at least the early 1700s. It seems possible that these traditions of the Moravian church, which descended from Prague-centered Bohemian reformation movements, are not totally independent of the similar traditions of nearby Linz. It would be good to find some sources for any connection, and find out what the Moravian Church called and calls aequales. The music of the Moravian church is apparently stunningly well documented, and there exists an organization called "The Moravian Music Foundation" dedicated to research into this documentation, so there's hope.

The use of the word "(a)equale" has a musical history long predating Glöggl, (draft text) so he must at the least have been using a term with a pre-existing meaning known to his contemporaries. You are quite right that we need more sources for this; hopefully these will soon be added. HLHJ (talk) 02:50, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Biblical symbolism

With reference to this edit, I entirely agree that the 1500s are pretty irrelevant to aequales. But Luther's bible translation was in current use in the 1700s and 1800s; indeed, it's still in use in Germany to this day. People playing aequales would have thought of the trombone as the instrument that would raise the dead at the last judgment. They'd think of it as the instrument which accompanied the giving of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:18 and the unbearable voice of God in Hebrews 12:19. The trombone topples the walls of Jericho. And so on. Maybe there's a more concise way to convey this emotional background? HLHJ (talk) 05:31, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

16th Century theorists?

"The term gained popularity during the 16th century among writers on music theory. Equal-voiced music is contrasted with pieces written 'a voce piena, or for a 'full range of voices'.[4]"

Can anyone name a theorist that fits this assertion?

The citation for that merely says "Carey 1991, p. 301" with no clue as to the title of the source, as if the source had been cited previously in this article, which it hasn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.119.204.117 (talk) 23:09, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

That content was copied here by HLHJ from Three Equals for four trombones, WoO 30, where the Carey ref is provided. It is: Carey, Frank (1991). "Composition for Equal Voices in the Sixteenth Century". The Journal of Musicology. Summer, 1991. University of California Press. 9 (3): 300–342. JSTOR 763705.

That said, I can see no demonstrable connection between that content and this minor eighteenth-century genre (either here or in the article on the Beethoven pieces), so I've undone that addition. I note in particular that the Grove article on the Equale is innocent of any mention of that earlier repertoire, but does link to its article on Voci pari, voci mutate, a topic we probably should have an article on. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:36, 10 November 2017 (UTC)