Talk:Enchylium limosum

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amakuru talk 17:02, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

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Enchylium limosum

• ... that Enchylium limosum (pictured) is considered a pioneer species, commonly colonizing bare, calcareous soils in habitats disrupted by human activity, such as quarries and spoil heaps? Source: 1 2 3
  • ALT1: ... that Enchylium limosum (pictured) has had a taxonomic journey spanning centuries, undergoing numerous name changes before finally receiving its current accepted name in 2013? Source: 1 2 3
  • ALT2: ... that Enchylium limosum (pictured) loves lime? Source: [1] [2] [3]
  • Reviewed:

Created by Xkalponik (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

X (talk) 21:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC).

• I'll review this. Article length and eligibility checks out, and is generally quite presentable. I see no evidence of copyvio. Out of all of these, I think ALT2 is the best; but I don't really see evidence that it "loves lime" beyond its name, and the article is a bit vague about what the "loving" portion of "lime-loving" means. Unfortunately, I think the other two hooks are lengthy and not very interesting to a non-specialist audience. Can you find any sources about why it's a lime-loving lichen? Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Comments:

@Generalissima, Hey thanks for reviewing the article. The term "lime-loving" in the common name "Lime-loving Tarpaper Lichen" refers to the preference of Enchylium limosum for habitats with alkaline or calcareous substrates. Limestone, which contains calcium carbonate, is commonly referred to as "lime," hence the name. Lichens like Enchylium limosum thrive in environments where calcium-rich minerals are present, such as limestone or dolomitic rocks. This particular fact is mentioned throughout the sources that are used in the article. Common names given to species are pretty much self-explanatory in most cases, including this one. These sources, although not particularly about the article's subject, will give an idea of why such species of the genera are called "lime-loving." 1, [2].

Sources that mention Enchylium limosum's calcareious habitat and common name are abundant and used throughout the article hence I felt it's redundant to mention them here.

I hope I was able to provide some ideas. Let me know if you have other questions/suggestions. Regards.

Edit: If you feel necessary, I can try to add more information explaining/shedding some background behind its common name in the etymology/taxonomy section. X (talk) 08:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

@Generalissima and Xoak: What is the status of this nom? (For the record, my gut reaction would be that saying something called "lime-loving" loves lime would come under WP:SKYISBLUE, although I'm happy to be swayed.)--Launchballer 09:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: I'm waiting myself to know. But nobody picked up on this. X (talk) 09:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

I want to give this a couple of days for Generalissima to respond. Personally, I'd merge some of the single-sentence paragraphs per MOS:PARA; technically this isn't a DYK issue but it is part of the GA criteria and this article's a candidate, so worth remedying now.--Launchballer 09:40, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions. I've merged some. Please feel free to suggest anything else you have in mind. X (talk)

• ALT3: that Enchylium limosum (pictured), a pioneer species that colonizes calcareous soils, derives its name from the Latin "limosus", meaning "full of mud" or "slime"?Source: [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk • contribs)

If I approve any hook on this page, it is probably going to be ALT2, although it given that the "lime-loving" bit comes from an alternative name that doesn't include "enchylium limosum", it might be worth proposing a belt-and-braces ALT using the second half of that name. I do not expect to need it though.--Launchballer 14:23, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

As the creator, I'd prefer ALT 2 as well. And for what's its worth: I can't agree enough with your previous comment relating to WP:SKYISBLUE. I don't think we need a source that mentions the blurb as is. Just because we have polices and we tend to stick to them for obvious good intentions, doesn't mean we need to overcomplicate things with bureaucratic procedures. Common sense can be applied in these instances. X (talk) 16:20, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

It's been a couple of days, so approving ALT2.--Launchballer 12:36, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

• @Xoak, Generalissima, Launchballer, Mary Mark Ockerbloom, and PrimalMustelid: reopening this, as the hook fact is not in the article. There's no assertion that it "loves lime" anywhere, and to be honest it's not even really clear what this means. The term "lime" only appears in the name so there's no context as to what this refers to. (To be honest, I'm not even 100% certain if it means Lime (fruit) or Lime (material), although I suppose common sense says it would be the latter. Either way, we either need to add more direct material to the article to support this, or amend the hook. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 15:15, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Amakuru: In case you haven't seen my earlier reponse above where I clarified what lime means here. The term "lime-loving" in the common name "Lime-loving Tarpaper Lichen" refers to the preference of Enchylium limosum for habitats with alkaline or calcareous substrates. Limestone, which contains calcium carbonate, is commonly referred to as "lime," hence the name. Lichens like Enchylium limosum thrive in environments where calcium-rich minerals are present, such as limestone or dolomitic rocks. This particular fact is mentioned throughout the sources that are used in the article. Common names given to species are pretty much self-explanatory in most cases, including this one. These sources, although not particularly about the article's subject, will give an idea of why such species of the genera are called "lime-loving." 1, [2].

Sources that mention Enchylium limosum's calcareious habitat and common name are abundant and used throughout the article. However, I'll look for sources that explicitly mention or spoon-feeds that term, although I (and some others) feel it's redundant. Regards. X (talk) 15:56, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Xoak: thanks for the response, and that does make some sense, but we really need the article to be directly stating the fact. Per WP:DYKHOOK, "The hook should include a definite fact that is unlikely to change, and citations in the article that are used to support the hook fact must verify the hook and be reliable. The wording of the article, hook, and source should all agree with each other with respect to who is providing the information – if the source is not willing to the say the fact in its own voice, the hook should attribute back to the original source as well." The line you've written above, "Lichens like Enchylium limosum thrive in environments where calcium-rich minerals are present, such as limestone or dolomitic rocks", would probably be sufficient, since now you've created the link between this plant and lime (mineral) directly, but that isn't directly stated yet. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 16:09, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Amakuru: I've added that line with sources. Check my last edit. Regards. X (talk) 16:54, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

OK thanks, that's great @Xoak:. Withdrawing query, so the original approval can stand, and I'll put it back in the prep shortly.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Re-promoted to Prep 2

Wordiness and "expert level"

I think this article really gives a good education about the topic, and I would not want to see it ruined. But I think it starts to cross the "expert" boundary a bit - would it be possible to "translate" more of it so that readers without a degree in biology can learn more?

Separately from the level of expertise, the article is very wordy. I do not think there were any bad style choices, it's just from the way many subject experts write: setting down their complete thought process accurately, quickly, and confidently, then moving on to the next thing. This DOES put all the right information on the page in the right order, but it's in the form of a "raw brain-dump" that contains a lot of unnecessary words.

Just as Pascal described something he had written: "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte." ("I have only made this long because I didn't have time to make it shorter.") TooManyFingers (talk) 16:54, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Enchylium limosum/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Xkalponik (talk · contribs) 20:49, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Wolverine XI (talk · contribs) 10:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I should finish the review today. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 10:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• This characteristic often leads to its colonizing environments disrupted by human activity. Doesn't make sense
• E. limosum is often underestimated and overlooked Why such phrasing?
• The conservation status of E. limosum presents a nuanced picture that varies across different regions. Needs explanation
• Swedish botanist Erik Acharius Rm Swedish botanist
• it was reassigned by various taxonomists, and received its current accepted name Enchylium limosum in 2013 by Mónica Andrea García Otálora, Per Magnus Jørgensen, & Mats Wedin. Sketchy phrasing
• Synonyms for it have included Collema forissii Szatala, Collema glaucescens Hoffm., Collema viscosum A. Massal., and others. Please improve the phrasing
• The species Enchylium limosum, commonly known as lime-loving tarpaper lichen,[1] derives its name from its original classification as Collema limosum, attributed to the Swedish botanist Erik Acharius. Both scientific and common names? *Synonymy section is not needed
• Finally, the altitudinal distribution of Rm finally
• Commonness and rarity is not a good section name
• The conservation status of the lichen species Enchylium limosum varies considerably across its known geographic range, with limited and sometimes conflicting assessments available. Unsourced
• Ref 23 needs fixing
• Could you add ISSNs for all the journal citations Should be done now. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 08:00, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Xkalponik: checking in. It looks like things here have been stalled for a month. Do you still have time/interest to work through this? If not, we can archive this review. Best, Ajpolino (talk) 12:41, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

As Xkalponik is now Xoak, pinging again just in case the previous ping didn't go through; this makes two nominations that are in a similar state. (Note that archiving the review means that it is closed as unsuccessful, not held for later. A renomination can be done at a later date.) BlueMoonset (talk) 01:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset Please see my response here. X (talk) 12:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

All, I am procedurally closing this nomination. The nominator is welcome to re-submit the article once they are able to complete the review process. Fritzmann (message me) 22:36, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.