Talk:Elmer, New Jersey

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Orphaned references in Elmer, New Jersey

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Elmer, New Jersey's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "CensusArea":

From Salem, New Jersey: Gazetteer of New Jersey Places, United States Census Bureau. Accessed October 23, 2012.
From Ventnor City, New Jersey: Gazetteer of New Jersey Places, United States Census Bureau. Accessed October 18, 2012.
From Woodstown, New Jersey: Gazetteer of New Jersey Places, United States Census Bureau. Accessed October 17, 2012.
From Cliffside Park, New Jersey: Gazetteer of New Jersey Places, United States Census Bureau. Accessed October 16, 2012.
From Carneys Point Township, New Jersey: Gazetteer of New Jersey Places, United States Census Bureau. Accessed October 20, 2012.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:42, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Linking

Common words like "country" should not be linked, and links should not be chained as this is potentially confusing to readers. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:30, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria, you might have a case regarding country, but not for county and state. WP:SEAOFBLUE and MOS:LINK provide examples such as a single link for Irish Chess Championship vs. separate links for Irish, Chess and Championship (in SEAOFBLUE) or Icelandic orthography vs. separate links for Icelandic and orthography (an example in MOS:LINK).

This is not the case here, where there is a rather clear and well-defined hierarchy of county and state within country; This is not what WP:SEAOFBLUE and MOS:LINK specify or cover. The words "Irish", "Chess" and "Championship" are not separate components (the example in SEAOFBLUE), while Salem County and New Jersey rather clearly are. I would agree with you that it would be inappropriate per SEAOFBLUE and / or MOS:LINK to break it down to Salem County New Jersey, but that's not what's being done here. I assume that you'd be fine with Salem County, New Jersey, right? Alansohn (talk) 18:46, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, I would not. It's not easy for a reader to see a difference between "Salem County, New Jersey" on the one hand and "Salem County, New Jersey" on the other (unless of course you've already clicked on one). "Salem County, New Jersey" would work, or "Salem County in New Jersey" if you really feel strongly that state needs to be linked in that sentence - I prefer "Salem County, New Jersey" because that's the most specific link, personally. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:56, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria: Take a look at the Template:Infobox settlement, which as its first parameters provides details for country, state and county. It is exactly this hierarchy that is being reproduced in the lead sentence. Readers understand that these are different components within a hierarchy and they want to see, and be able to access information, about both county AND state. What does "link specificity" have to do with providing meaningful information to readers? This is not "Salem County, New Jersey", where information is being lost by breaking it up into a SEAOFBLUE. This is "Salem County, New Jersey", where each component matches one-to-one with a corresponding parameter in the infobox. Alansohn (talk) 19:19, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I really don't understand your objection. I'm not advocating removing this hierarchy from the lead entirely - the information is still there. But not all readers will automatically understand that what appears to be a single link ("Salem County, New Jersey") is actually two. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:50, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

...and I don't comprehend yours. In the infobox for this article, there is a link to New Jersey (the state) *AND* a link to Salem County (the county). Somehow this works without causing the Universe to collapse. You apparently have no objection to these two links co-existing, even though they share the words "New Jersey". Why would anyone have an objection to those same two corresponding links appearing in a single sentence in the lead, providing the exact same information and navigation opportunities to readers who want to know about either the county *OR* the state? Would "Salem County in the U.S. state of New Jersey" address whatever it is that concerns you here? Alansohn (talk) 20:18, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, because as I explained above, I don't object to the fact of linking New Jersey but rather to linking it in such a manner that is likely to confuse readers. That's why it's fine in the infobox (where the two are on separate rows) but not formatted so it looks like a single link in the text. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:59, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We do that all the time in Wikipedia, including in articles that you've edited. The space between with a lack of blue underlining is a standard that readers seem to get. If that's your only objection, wouldn't describing Elmer as being located in "Salem County in the U.S. state of New Jersey" address your concerns here? Alansohn (talk) 22:24, 16 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, yes, that's fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:14, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]