Talk:Ellowes Hall Sports College

Nice start, try splitting into topics and adding an infobox. Any alumni? refs? Victuallers 13:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC) Reverted AlexWilkes' edits. Why replace perfectly good, coherent, referenced prose with semi-literate and factually inaccurate banalities? The school is "controlled by Dudley MBC"? Baloney, sir.

Dudley or Sedgley

There seems to be some disagreement as to whether Gornal (and by extension Ellowes) is in Dudley or Sedgley. Uncontroverisally, it strikes me that there are two options, and I ask that those with a view please vote below:

Option 1: Ellowes Hall School is located in Lower Gornal, Dudley.

(Evidence for this view includes that the area is represented by the MP for DUDLEY North, councillors are elected to DUDLEY council, and that, well, it quite blatantly is in Dudley.)

Option 2: Ellowes Hall School is located in Lower Gornal, Sedgley.

(Evidence for this view includes, well... too much to list.)

Votes --

I voted Option 2 because the Wikification looks so much more convincing. Such lovely colours too. --Andrew.boulton 12:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Surely the unmentioned Option 3 (that the Ellowes Hall Sports College exists within 'Greater Birmingham') would be more factually correct? --D.elwell 16:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

AlexWilkes, your edits are not even funny any more. Please sir, look at the map [1] and tell me what you learn about the location of Gornal wrt Sedgley. You will find that the claim "Gornal is in Sedgley" is rather like saying Kingswinford is in Brierley Hill i.e. self-evidently a load of bullshit. However much you would like something to be true, simply repeating it does not make it so. --Andrew.boulton 21:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, 'Andrew.Boulton'. Living in a manor myself I'm not familiar with the aforementioned areas but must concur with you that Gornal can indeed be found in Dudley and not Sedgley. Sedgley is merely an administrative area of Dudley, and has exactly the same status as Gornal - see [2]. Note that none of Gornal (not even Upper Gornal) is considered part of Sedgley. --D.elwell 18:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

OfSTED

You cannot quote 'alternative viewpoints' and (unreferenced) Dudley News articles in an encyclopedia article. It is right that OfSTED's word is taken as gospel on how behaviour, standards, and results have or have not changed. The DISCUSSION page is the arena for discussing alternative viewpoints and making suggestions - do not massacre a perfectly good article that someone has spent valuable time adding.

Trouble is, a significant part of the article is inference, not a quote from the OfSTED report and as such, is no more than Alex Wilkes' viewpoint. The "alternative viewpoint" was entirely factually correct. The original is both incorrect and potentially damaging.

You and which OfSTED report? The official OfSTED report. Oh, that's a good OfSTED report.--Andrew.boulton 12:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Which part is "incorrect"? The introductory paragraph which states where the school is, the type of school it is, a brief history, its main feeder schools, and its current head? The overwhelming BULK of the article which is QUOTED FROM OfSTED or uncontroversially paraphrased from OfSTED? Or the final part, added by someone else, which reflects a) the findings of OfSTED, b) the situation i.r.o staff turnover especially in the science department, and c) that Norman Smith's initials are indeed on the school gates?

The former leadership oversaw a dramatic turnaround in the school's fortunes from the days of Norman Smith -- you can't deny that. "NRS" may be emblazoned on the school gates but I understand, by contrast, "SJB" appears in numerous prominent locations throughout the school. For example, in cubicle 2 of the Humanities corridor boys' toilets, this spontaneous and touching tribute in Tip-ex appears aback the burnt-out door: "SJB is a..." [at this point the sophisticated "a wee bit chunky", rounded penmanship of the native artist becomes undecipherable, although I postulate that the 4 letter word may have been some kind of code for "highly competent, successful and dynamic leader who promoted high standards, good behaviour and presided over a massive improvement in the quality and morale of teaching staff]". I cannot be sure however, and this may be a little too "POV" for Wikipedia. What it does illustrate however is quite the level of esteem in which the former leadership was held, belying your scurrilous claims that standards somehow declined. I'll have you know the standard of Dulux in the offices of Senior Management was second to none, and the Reception area was carpeted fully throughout in CARPET TILES. As a True Wikipedian I would require at least one Authoritative Source - by that I mean a Word-designed Geocities page, or another cobbled-together Wikipedia ego piece for example - to confirm these observations. Remember, OfSTED reports can NOT be cited as evidence. Because of this, I'd stick with the Dudley News eulogy referenced by our previous contributor because I am prepared to believe that it may potentially once have possibly existed perhaps. It's wuff a loff. --Andrew.boulton 12:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Famous Alumni

I think this would be a useful section, since there are so many people to include. As we can not include every notable or worthy candidate, I am currently working on it using the Sunday Times Rich List, Who's Who? and the Faculty lists of the world's leading research universities to compile a concise creme-de-la-creme Cameronesque "A"-list. So, please list suggestions here. I understand that the Director of Sywatch Ltd once graced the Hall, but I wouldn't wish to add such an earth-shattering comment to what must be the most-read page on Wikipedia without at least one Authoritative Source (see above) to contradict it. Or confirm it. Whichever's funny (a la Peter Griffin). --Andrew.boulton 12:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

DUDLEY OR SEDGLEY (AGAIN)

Ellowes Hall School is situated in Lower Gornal, a village in the West Midlands in England.

It has been widely disputed whether Lower Gornal (along with Upper Gornal and Gornal Wood) is part of Sedgley or Dudley. There are strong arguments to support either statement.

The Gornals were in the parish of Sedgley for several centuries leading up to the formation of Sedgley Urban District Council in 1894, and from this date onwards they continued to be part of Sedgley.

The Gornals are believed to be part of Dudley, as the whole area has been controlled by Dudley council since 1966 (as has Sedgley), although the Gornals are included in the Sedgley DY3 postal district.

A similar dispute arises in the Woodsetton area, which was always part of Sedgley until 1966, but has since been included in the borough of Dudley and is even included in the Dudley DY1 postal district.

There are many other villages across England which are the centre of disputes as to which town they are part of.

Indeed, however as you state, since 1966 Gornal has existed wholly within Dudley and shares the same status as Sedgley. By your own [implicit] admission your argument is incorrect.

In addition, post code districts do not represent (and imply limits and/or ownership of) towns. The DY3 postal district applies to Gornal, Sedgley, Gospel End, Himley and Swindon. Note that Himley and Swindon are not even in the same county as Sedgley. Postal districts are merely for postal service efficiency. 82.37.68.127 14:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)