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Reverting criticism

[edit]

Dear @Grakov, Please open a discussion before removing sourced criticism from the article about the politician. Deleting content without prior discussion is unacceptable, see WP:BRD. The removed text is based on reliable sources and does not violate WP:RS or WP:SOAPBOX. The previous version of the article, however, may violate these guidelines, as it lacks criticism and reads like an advertisement. If you believe that the existing information in the lead section is more important, please explain your reasoning on the talk page, and let's find a way to present all viewpoints neutrally. Remember that Wikipedia strives for neutrality, see WP:NPOV. I would also like to point out that Yegor Kuroptev is not mentioned in any major international media outlet in connection with any topic other than the Factory of Elves. Therefore, I insist that this is the primary notable information about him and should be included in the lead section. Unxed (talk) 11:24, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting content without prior discussion is unacceptable, see WP:BRD.

You might notice that it is called "Bold, revert, discuss", not "Bold, discuss, revert". While I don't have any opinion on the underlying content dispute, the WP:ONUS is on the person who added the material first, in this case you. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @Grakov, Please open a discussion before removing sourced criticism from the article about the politician.

As it was mentioned by some users on your application to administrators in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Possible sockpuppetry and promotional editing by suspected SPA, I pointed to a specific problem with your contribution, so it's your duty to start discussion, if you want to discuss it.
Let's start with the fact that you originally added block with this info to the header of the article in a crooked way, inserting it right after the first paragraph (to make place it to the top of the article), and breaking the existing info chronology.
Is there really any reason to question about your WP:FAITH and you're violating WP:SOAPBOX?
Not to mention the fact that you dragged a rather large text into a short summary, some of which is copied from the Elf Factory article.
Also there are no mentions about Egor Kuroptev role in the Elf Farm project in the used by you references, so this is WP:NOR.
More over, currently I returned proposed by your information to the article, to fix the problem I pointed out to you. Grakov (talk) 12:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1. You will hardly find a single mention of Egor Kuroptev in reputable international media that is not related to the Elf Factory. Information about all his other projects is mostly based on broken links or links to the websites of these very projects. "Notable work" has two sources: one is the broken link, two is local Georgian web site, nothing like Deutche Well or other international-known medias. The entire article is self advertisement. At the same time The Elf Factory is Egor's most famous project, which is why information about it should be placed at the beginning of the article.
2. What do you mean by "messing it up with two accounts"? I have only one account, Unxed
3. The link to WP:NOR regarding content that exactly matches the sources is unclear to me. Let's take a closer look at what you consider original research here? The Factory did not exist? Kuroptev did not run it? Hired people did not write comments from fake accounts? All of these facts are confirmed by sources. If you doubt specific statements, let's discuss them!
4. You delete content related to criticism of Kuroptev and his projects, also from other pages, and also without discussion. In particular, you deleted information from the Elf Factory page. Information that was definitely in the source, details on the discussion page. Please stop deleting criticism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elf_Farm&diff=1244651282&oldid=1244641002
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elf_Farm Unxed (talk) 16:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You will hardly find a single mention of Egor Kuroptev

Just scroll down to the "References" section.

What do you mean by "messing it up with two accounts"? I have only one account, Unxed

I didn't mean that Micheevs5 is your account (and I didn't go to complain to the administrators).
However, I know, that you know each other personally from Twitter. And I can assume you're acting in coordination.

The link to WP:NOR regarding content that exactly matches the sources is unclear to me.

The Factory did not exist? Kuroptev did not run it? Hired people did not write comments from fake accounts?

Thanks for another manipulation. I clearly pointed to the problem: WP:NOR about managing Elf Farm
There are no source (from the current ref list), there something was said about Kuroptev role in the project.

You delete content related to criticism of Kuroptev and his projects

As you can see, I didn't remove info about Elf Farm from this page.
Speaking of Elf Farm page itself, you listed the Kuroptev's role without citing a source, where it would have been explicitly stated.

Please stop deleting criticism.

So, taking into account the previous paragraph, please stop your manipulations and don't violate WP:SOAPBOX, trying to push your opinion. Grakov (talk) 17:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Meduza, Mediazona and Novaya Gazeta refer to Investigative journalist Zakharov's material. Kuroptev and other members of FRF do not refute this tropic in their comments to journalists
Meduza: Investigative journalist Andrei Zakharov writes, citing his sources, that the “elf factory” project is indeed being carried out by Free Russia Foundation coordinators Anton Mikhalchuk and Egor Kuroptev.
Mediazona: “From the office in Georgia, everyone [with whom I spoke] when asked about the FBK said: there is no FBK, the main ones were Egor Kuroptev and Anton Mikhalchuk,” journalist Andrei Zakharov
Novaya Gazeta: Another former employee of the project, whom the journalist knows personally, said that “all of Tbilisi” knew about the “elf factory.” “He also confidently points to Mikhalchuk and another Free Russia figure, Egor Kuroptev, as the project’s leaders,” Zakharov added.
Also, we have anothe source in SVTV:
Mediazona: The key employees of the bot farm in the SVTV article are named as the director of the Free Russia Foundation for the South Caucasus, Yegor Kuroptev, the coordinator of the same organization for the South Caucasus, Anton Mikhalchuk, IT specialist Pavel Elizarov, and the director of this foundation, Natalia Arno.
About SVTV material write Meduza Micheevs5 (talk) 17:39, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have two material: source of SVTV and critic of SVTV material Andrei Zakharov. Both agree that the Elf Factory was led by Kuroptev. And Kuroptev does not refute this statement, but on the contrary gives detailed comments on the work of the factory. Micheevs5 (talk) 17:48, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Colleague Grakov, repeated references to WP:SOAPBOX do not make arguments more convincing, especially since the article in question looked like pure advertising before my edits. It needs to be rewritten in a more neutral, encyclopedic style, highlighting facts with a level of detail that corresponds to the number of mentions in authoritative sources. Regarding Kuroptev's role in the Elf Farm project, I have just added another source to the article, explicitly stating that Kuroptev was indeed the curator of the project. I would like to remind you that Wikipedia's rules do not impose any restrictions on communication between multiple Wikipedia editors via Twitter, other social networks, or any other means. I would also like to remind you that Wikipedia is not about opinions but about the neutral description of article subjects based on the facts available in the sources. You mentioned that I could review the list of references at the end of the article to verify the significance of unrelated to Elf Farm facts mentioned in the article. That's a good suggestion! Let's start with source number three, with reference after the words "Пограничная ZONA." This link is broken. Should I remove the mention of this "Пограничная ZONA" from the article, or are there reliable authoritative sources confirming the significance of this project and Kuroptev's role in it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unxed (talk • contribs) 13:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also pls note that on the website of FRF Strategic Communications Center, the 'Elf Legion' is listed as a key project, and Yegor Kuroptev is mentioned as the director of this division.
https://www.4freerussia.org/strategic_communications_center/
http://web.archive.org/web/20240907213816/https://www.4freerussia.org/strategic_communications_center/ Unxed (talk) 12:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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