Talk:East Bengal Ultras

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:East Bengal Ultras/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 12:40, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

I'll pick this one up. Kosack (talk) 12:40, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Lead

• The lead is rather short, consisting of just two sentences. I would say we should be looking for around two paragraphs given the size of the article.

Support

• Section is completely unsourced.
• Links are needed for East Bengal F.C. and IFA Shield.

Initial Days: 2013-2016

• What is reference two doing? Also, the name doesn't need bolding at this point.
• "They made the right noise by their first big Tifo", this doesn't remake sense.
• Sourcing is again an issue here.

Growth of Ultras Culture: 2017-present

• No need for words like atmosphere and youth derbies to be capitalised.

Chants and Slogans

• I'm not sure what use foreign language quotes are, especially when they're not even attributed.

Recognition

• Don't disguise external links as wikilinks.
• This section seems to be just an indiscriminate list, almost like promotional content.

References

• Don't use shouting in ref titles, per WP:ALLCAPS.

Unfortunately, I'll be failing this review as the article is some way off meeting the GA criteria. There are large portions of unsourced information and I have concerns over the WP:NPOV of the page. Phrases like "East Bengal Ultras has helped to amass all the fan clubs under one roof and raises the decibel level together from the stands" and "This was the perfect opportunity for a non-Indian football fan to get the hype and the passion surrounding the beautiful game in India" which are prevalent throughout sound more like a promotion for the group rather than an encyclopedia page.

Grammar is an issue as well, I would suggest submitting the article for a copyedit by a member of the WP:GOCE. On top of the few issues I included above, there is too much work to be reasonably managed in a single review. Kosack (talk) 12:52, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Suggestions before you nominate this page for GA again

Hi,

I reviewed your most recent GA review, as with I have some suggestions:

• Ask for reassessment from the Wikiprojects that apply to this page. This will give you some good idea on the current status of the article
• See the first GA.
• If possible, find more reliable sources.

If you have any questions on suggestions, Feel free to ask. I do not have expirience with the topic, please do not ask for a list of better sources. Thanks! -Kylie Take a look | What have I done? | Talk to me 21:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:East Bengal Ultras/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 14:36, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Picking this one up, review coming soon. Kosack (talk) 14:36, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Infobox

• The North Stand is mentioned here but not in the text, so it needs a source.

Lead

• "also known as the Bangal Brigade (due to the ethnicity of majority of the fanbase)", this appears to be a direct copy and paste from ref 3. Information needs to be presented in your own words.
• "the vocal supporters' movement for Indian club", a few issues with this sentence. I'm not sure what vocal is adding here and I'm not really sure a fan group can be described as a "movement" either. Also, add football with a link after Indian.
• Link I-League.
• They are the first > They were...
• Might be worth using the full pyrotechnic show and providing a link for the uninitiated.
• "Currently, they have around 25 chants and slogans", source? Also, words like currently should generally be avoided as they are prone to becoming outdated.
• "In 2019-20 I-League season" > In the...
• Also, year span ranges in seasons should use an endash.
• "and broke the previous record of" > breaking the previous record of...
• "which had also been set by the East Bengal Ultras" > which the group had also set.

Supported club

• Link East Bengal to the club.
• "lighting up the torches" > lighting torches...
• This section seems to be another copy and paste, this time of ref 5.

Initial years: 2013–2016

• The caption could do with more information, a year perhaps?
• No need to link Bengaluru FC twice.
• One or two phrases that are a bit journalistic, things like "created history" and "commanding display" are not very encyclopedic.

Pyro show

• "Fans sang in their loudest voices", again comes across very promotional and journalistic.

Tifos

• "The 2018–19 saw East Bengal FC", something missing here.
• Kolkata Derby is already linked previously.
• "The East Bengal Ultras won the fan battles", I can't see anything to imply that in the source?
• "This tifo became an instant hit among the fans", again the source doesn't seem to support this.
• "covered by BBC" > the BBC.
• No need to link the club again here.
• "FIFA world cup Qualifiers", capitalise World Cup. Add links for the World Cup, Bangladesh and the 2011 ICC World Cup.
• "the first game of 2019-20 I-League campaign" >the 2019... Also the season range requires an endash.

Controversy

• "when during the 2019-20 I-League first leg Kolkata Derby", endash for the season range and no need for the season or Derby link, both used previously.
• Probably worth mentioning why the NRC was controversial amongst the fans.
• "political groups making an issue of the situation", this sounds a bit like taking sides and needs to be more neutral.

Chants and slogans

• "East Bengal Ultras has always" > have always...
• "that echoed through the stands", too journalistic.
• No need to link the side again and amend the Liverpool link to F.C., rather than FC.

References

• Avoid shouting in ref titles, per WP:ALLCAPS.
• Why is Where Hrisav Blogs a reliable source?
• A few of the refs used here have authors available, make sure they are all properly attributed.
• Refs 32 and 34 appear to be the same. Merge them and add publishing information.

I was hoping this was going through this time, but it's a quick fail again I'm afraid. The standard of writing has improved considerably since my first review in December, but there are still issues to iron out. These would have been workable in a review, however the use of material that is literally word for word the same as sources is a big issue. That's the main reason I'm failing this again, as there are at leaat two significant portions of the article that need rewriting entirely and a few other sentence clashes according to the copyvio detector. I would suggest that you rewrite these sections in your own words (and any others that may fall foul of this) and address the issues I've listed above here. Once these have been done, I would highly recommend you submit this at WP:GOCE or seek a copyedit from a user that can provide a good review of the article. This will help iron out the minor grammar issues that seem to be creeping in. At that point, the article is likely to be ready for another nomination, one which it should be able to pass. Kosack (talk) 06:37, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Removed text

WP:CC-BY-SA declaration; text in this section removed from the article because this was hidden text. Some of the refs might be useful to future editors so I'm leaving it here. Baffle☿gab 06:12, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Recognition by world media

• In February 2016, Ultras-Tifo made a match report on the Ultras activities performed during an I-League game between East Bengal and Salgaocar FC.
• In June 2016, One of the leading Ultras group of Russia, Fanat1k – Spartak Moscow Supporters featured East Bengal Ultras on their website.
• In June 2016, O Canto das Torcidas – One of Brazil's leading Ultras forum featured East Bengal Ultras.
• In February 2017, the famous UK Media outlet Copa90 featured the East Bengal Ultras and mentioned them as one of the top 5 Ultras in Asia.
• In December 2017, Football Fans Asia documented the East Bengal Ultras for its growing popularity of Ultras Movement in India.
• In August 2018, Ultras-Tifo featured the East Bengal Ultras for their grand Pyro show against Aryans SC in the Calcutta Football League.
• In August 2018, Copa90 made a short video on East Bengal Ultras for their grand Pyro show against Aryans SC.
• In December 2018, BBC covered the Tifo which was made by East Bengal Ultras in the Kolkata Derby.
• In January 2019, Ultras-Tifo again featured East Bengal Ultras for the gigantic and largest Tifo ever made in Indian Football.
• In March 2019, 11FREUNDE, a famous German Magazine for football culture featured East Bengal Ultras during the Kolkata Derby.
• In July 2019, Famous Bengali blog magazine Blog-Tog featured East Bengal Ultras before the start of the centenary season.
• In July 2019, Bengali news portal The Wall, featured East Bengal Ultras and how the movement have changed the football culture in Indian football since their inception.
• In August 2019, Ultras-Tifo once again featured the East Bengal Ultras for their grand pyro and smoke show against BSS Sporting Club in the Calcutta Football League.. Other giant Ultras forums like: Ultras Mentality and Ultras News World also featured the same on their portals.
• In October 2019, The Times of India featured East Bengal Ultras after the India vs Bangladesh match in the 2022 FIFA World Cup qualification (AFC) match where they unveiled a TOI inspired tifo representing the dream of Indian national team having qualified for the FIFA World Cup.

References

Baffle☿gab 06:12, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:East Bengal Ultras/GA4. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 18:43, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Prose, POV, and coverage

Lead:

• the vocal supporters' group of an Indian football club, SC East Bengal, which competes in the ISL—the top tier football league in India.
  • Unless it is a group of something called "vocal supporters", I would suggest describing the enthusiasm of supporters in a later sentence.
    • here vocal refers to Football chant.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:07, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
      • I see. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I would suggest "of Indian football club SC East Bengal". This group is a supporter for this particular football club.

Supported club:

• I'm not sure what the best heading title for this section would be. Maybe just "SC East Bengal"?
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• "Association football" should be lowercase.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• In 1930, Mahatma Gandhi's Satyagraha swept over India and affected football - What is Satyagraha? It would be interesting to see how this caused the boycott of the CFL. Also, would it be better to say "Indian football was affected in 1930 by Mahatma Gandhi's Satyagraha"?
  • satyagraha = non-violence movement. so, football was a good medium for that. Indian football clubs vs English. Also it would be misleading to say Indian football, as back then football was 99% concentrated to Kolkata only. And even today its like that.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:50, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• In the midst of the disruption, Royal Regiment was declared First Division winners - There's a singular-plural disagreement here. This should either be "was declared First Division winner" or "were declared First Division winners".
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• A hand holding a flaming torch became the supporters' club's emblem and remains so in 2020 - The last part of the sentence is awkwardly phrased. There are two main ideas to this sentence: "A hand holding a flaming torch became the supporters' club's emblem" and "As of 2020, this icon is still the emblem of the supporters' club." Maybe it can be split that way.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Initial years: 2013–2016"

• denoting the fans were the club's "twelfth man". - I think you can say "denoting that" in this instance. Or saying "...indicating the fans were..."
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• the East Bengal Ultras displayed a 3D tifo, first ever in South Asia’s, - "South Asia" shouldn't be possessive, i.e. "first ever in South Asia".
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Growth of ultras culture: 2017–present:

• prompted a lot of discussion on fan forums - "a lot of discussion" is quite informal, I would just say "much discussion".
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• The group started with around 10 people - Should this be in the previous section?
  • Trying to say that at present its thousands, but initially just 10.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• To celebrate the club's centenary year in 2019, the Ultras organised an event called Tunes of Colony, which was held on 31 July[9] at the Sovabazar Natmandir temple; it was the first-ever chant-based musical show in Indian and South Asian Football.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • The word "year" in "centenary year" is redundant, I would just say "centenary".
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Should this sentence be split? The first part of the sentence, before the semicolon, is quite long already.
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:41, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • The word "football" in "South Asian football" should be lowercase.
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• The event was a hit with East Bengal fans. - How so?
  • As it was first live chant show.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:31, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
    • I see. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• ("Do you understand sir? Do I need to say more?") - Which language is this, by the way?
  • Bangla  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• I would recommend using {{multiple image}} to combine the tifo images.
  • The images are arranged according to the texts.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:38, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
• On 4 December 2019, at a game against Real Kashmir that was the first game of their 2019–20 I-League campaign at the Kalyani Stadium, the East Bengal Ultras presented a 10,000 sq ft (930 m2) tifo—the largest in Indian football so far—in the form of a book showing five major achievements in the history of East Bengal; this tifo was featured in a December 2019 article in the United States-based media outlet The18
  • This should definitely be split into at least two sentences. The first part of the sentence is quite long-winded, and the entire sentence is one paragraph.
  • Furthermore, it can probably be reworded. In the first part of the sentence, I would relocate "a game against Real Kashmir" so that it comes before the comma. E.g. "At a game against Real Kashmir on 4 December 2019, the first game of their 2019–20 I-League campaign at the Kalyani Stadium, the East Bengal Ultras presented a 10,000 sq ft (930 m2) tifo, the largest in Indian football so far, showing five major achievements in the history of East Bengal."
    •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  18:38, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
  • this tifo was featured in a December 2019 article in the United States-based media outlet The18 - By the way, is this outlet notable?
    • we can say yes if we look at their FB page. also, getting featured by an foreign media is something ultra-rare w.r.t. indian football...  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  13:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
      • About your second point, I didn't realize that. It's OK for now, but I think in the future it may be reassessed if this outlet does not have an article in a few years. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

        • Epicgenius, ok  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  10:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

NRC controversy

@ArnabSaha: It has been a few weeks since I've looked at the nomination, sorry about that. I'm going to finish this quickly. Epicgenius (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

• The incident led to controversy among groups both for and against the NRC. - I get what you mean, but:
  • Should it be "controversy between"? Or did each group have their own controversies? (In the second case, the current wording would be correct.)
    •  Done. It involved people/group supporting NRC and against NRC. (More details on what happened all over the country- CAA protests)  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  11:07, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
  • I wonder if there are any specific examples.
    • There's no such specific examples. It mainly happened in social media, thats why the EBU released a statement on this.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  11:07, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Chants and slogans

• As of 2020, there are around 25 chants and slogans. - Usually you'd count in dozens (e.g. "around two dozen") or tens (e.g. "more than twenty"). I'm wondering if the exact number is known.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:48, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• "Dale Cavese" is one of the most famous tunes that became popular with the East Bengal Ultras. - Is this either one of the most famous tunes among the general public, or among other ultras groups? Or is "famous" being used as a point of comparison to something else?
  • This is tune is famous among the fan groups all over the world (source), including East Bengal fans. Just like it became popular all over the world, when it was introduced here, it became popular too.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  17:55, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

References

General:

• In general, make sure to go over the references and verify that the "author" is actually an author. For example, i doubt there is someone named "Sportstar, Team" (ref 17).
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  20:02, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• You can also check for missing dates of publication, but this is less major.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  20:06, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• I would avoid mentioning the website name, or even the website itself, in citation titles. E.g. ref 5 ("Corteo and Pyros : When East Bengal Ultras did a Legia Warsaw – Sportskeeda".) I would remove "Sportskeeda" and move that to the |work= field.
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:56, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• For sources from Twitter and YouTube, you should note that the source is via Twitter or YouTube. They are marginally reliable for primary sources, but I would advise against using these if a better source is available.
  • No other sources available sadly. Actually these were added to show that the group was featured my international media.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  20:02, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
    • I see. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Specific:

• For ref 14 ("Eine Reise zum größten Derby Asiens: East Bengal gegen Mohun Bagan".) is there a translated title?
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:46, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• For ref 19 (কাঁচা খেউড়ের বদলে এখন চ্যান্ট হয়, গ্যালারি কালচার বদলেছি অনেক প্রতিঘাত পেরিয়েই".) is there a translated title?
  •  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:46, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• Refs 35 and 37 ("East Bengal Ultras – Lorechi Onek Juddho". SoundCloud.) are exactly the same. While ref 35 is suitable for quoting the lyrics in the quote box, I don't know if ref 37 is reliable for the sentence "Allez Allez Allez" sung by Liverpool F.C. fans, which was itself adapted from "Un giorno all'improvviso" (originally "L'estate sta finendo") sung by the S.S.C. Napoli fans, was adopted into Bengali and became an instant hit among the club's supporters
  • Moved the citation above and combined them.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:53, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
• Ref 36 (says, Jeff Debnath (8 February 2014). "Chants". East Bengal Ultras. Archived from the original on 29 January 2020. Retrieved 29 January 2020.) seems to be from WordPress and may not be reliable. Epicgenius (talk) 16:22, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
  • This was the previous website of the group.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:47, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
    • Oh, OK. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

I did five reference spotchecks and didn't find anything wrong. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Images and copyright

• The majority of images are freely licensed, while the infobox image has a non-free use rationale.
• Copyright violation spotchecks came up clean. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Other issues raised in previous reviews

As there have been three previous nominations, I will take some time to look over the issues raised in the previous reviews, and see if they were resolved, before I put my own feedback. It seems that GA3 raised up some close paraphrasing issues. While that is not as big of a problem at this moment, there are a few sentences that still must be fixed. For instance:

• Article: At the opening match of the 2016 CFL Premier Division at the Kalyani Stadium, the East Bengal Ultras displayed South Asia’s first ever 3D tifo, which depicted an East Bengal player holding the CFL Trophy against the backdrop of the Kolkata skyline and the text Kolkata Amader ("Kolkata is ours").
  • Source: East Bengal Ultras created history in the 2016 CFL Opener in the Kalyani Stadium with India’s 1st Ever 3D Tifo which had a East Bengal Player holding the CFL Trophy in the backdrop of the Kolkata Skyline with a written slogan as ‘Kolkata Amader’ which simply means ‘Kolkata is ours’ due to theit commanding display in the Calcutta Football League.
• Article: These attracted coverage by foreign sports media such as Copa90, Ultras-tifo, Football Fans Asia, 11 Freunde, Exhale Sports and ultras groups of various football clubs because they created a new atmosphere in Indian football.
  • Source: The first big thing of 2017 was the Brilliant Smoke Show and another 3D Tifo against Bengaluru FC which attracted foreign Sports Medias such as Copa90, Football Fans Asia and Exhale Sports due to a never-seen atmosphere in Indian Football.

Once these issues are fixed, I'll look at this article from the beginning. Epicgenius (talk) 18:50, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Epicgenius,  Done. i hope its now corrected.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:40, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

ArnabSaha, all right. I will look more into detail shortly. Epicgenius (talk) 19:48, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

General comments

@ArnabSaha: nice work. It seems like both the issues I raised and the issues raised by the previous failed reviews have been resolved. I have a few additional comments:

• In "Growth of ultras culture", The group started with around 10 people and by 2019, they had expanded to thousands, including between 100 and 150 core members. - in the phrase "and by 2019, they had expanded to thousands" you can probably replace "and" with "but", or with "though", since this is a contrast.
• In "NRC controversy", Although the incident led to controversy between groups both for and against the NRC is a run-on sentence.

I do think this is almost ready for GA, except for these issues. Epicgenius (talk) 17:18, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Epicgenius,  Done  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  19:53, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Great. I'll pass this article now. Epicgenius (talk) 20:38, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by MeegsC (talk) 14:30, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Viking Clap in East Bengal Ground by East Bengal Ultras

• ... that founded in 2013, East Bengal Ultras became the first ultras group in India? Source: badgeb.com, seasia.co
  • ALT1:... that East Bengal Ultras is considered as the second-best ultras group in Asia? Source: medium.com, copa90.com
  • ALT2:... that East Bengal Ultras has the record of making largest tifo in Indian football, 10,000 sq ft (930 m²)? Source: the18.com
  • ALT3:... that Indian football's second largest tifo by East Bengal Ultras depicted the struggles their ancestors faced during the Partition of India and how the club became an inspiration for them? Source: badgeb.com

• Comment: my 5th nomination

Improved to Good Article status by ArnabSaha (talk). Self-nominated at 04:56, 17 February 2021 (UTC).

• The article became a GA on time and has no copyright violations. I assume good faith on the Bengali reference. A QPQ is not needed. I am approving ALT0 or ALT2 as the most interesting hooks. SL93 (talk) 01:07, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

• Sorry for not mentioning the image, which is fine as well. SL93 (talk) 01:00, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

• ArnabSaha, would you be okay with a reversal of the order of the clauses in your hook? I think it would read better. That is:

"... that the East Bengal Ultras, founded in 2013, became India's first ultras group?" MeegsC (talk) 13:44, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

MeegsC, yeah sure (btw, its strange I didn't get notification...)  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  14:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)