Talk:Earl of Derby

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Derby/West Derby

"There can be no doubt that [the first Stanley earl] was made Earl of the county of Derby, and the fact seems never to have been questioned till of late years. Courthope (in a MS. note to this title) states that having inspected the Charter Roll of 1 Hen. VII he finds that 'although there are no words in the charter stating that he was made Earl of the county of Derby, there is the usual clause directing the payment of £20 per annum by the Sheriff of Derby and Notts, out of the profits of those counties.' It is, however, a curious coincidence that the estates of the family were chiefly in the hundred of West Derby, co. Lancaster, while they appear to have had no land and no connection with the county of Derby." The Complete Peerage, vol. IV, page 206. Opera hat (talk) 10:20, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In a TV interview (Alexi Sayles Liverpool 2008) the current Earl (19th) maintained that his title did not relate to the City of Derby, but to the West Derby Hundred in Liverpool. The Stanley family along with the Molyneux family (Earl's of Sefton) have long been Merseyside's two most prominent families, their rivalry even spreading to horse racing, with the Stanley's favouring flat racing via the Derby and The Oaks and the Molyneux family founding the Aintree Grand National. Twalla41 (talk) 00:41, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect the answer may be that the title formally refers to the county, but that that particular county was chosen because of the 1st Earl's connection with the similarly-named hundred. Proteus (Talk) 13:13, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arms

The "coat of arms" displayed is not the coat of arms of the present Earl. It may have been the arms at some remote date, or it may be the shield, improperly extracted from the arms and presented as the whole; I do not know which. But the present arms include supporters, a coronet, and a crest, as can be readily discovered at the Earl’s own website, [1]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.0.252 (talk) 15:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Token disagreement: The coat of arms was originally a tunic worn over armor; the design thereon was repeated on the shield. All my books, I believe, call the whole composition the achievement or the armorial bearings; and the quarters of a composite shield are often called coats.

Still, if you'd rather change the caption to say shield or escutcheon, I won't mind. —Tamfang (talk) 22:09, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect Portrait

The portrait on this page labelled Thomas, 1st Earl of Derby, is clearly not him, being obviously later 16C, given the costume and beard. It looks far more like Edward, the 3rd Earl or Henry, 4th Earl: long beards were not worn in Thomas's time. The collar is identical to one worn by Henry in another portrait: see 1590s portrait of Henry. Silverwhistle (talk) 11:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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