Talk:Duchy (Kingdom of Hungary)

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article has no references and tercia part regni is a latin rare name for a principality of nitra. so iam going to redirect it to the Principality fo Nitra — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samofi (talk • contribs) 08:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Principality of Nitra has nothing to do with Tercia Pars Regni. Fakirbakir (talk) 20:11, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

It has to do, its the Nitra appanage duchy: http://books.google.com/books?id=3orG2yZ9mBkC&pg=PA278&dq=nitra+appanage+duchy&hl=sk&ei=f2GBTtnjNYTCswaL6sSRDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=nitra%20appanage%20duchy&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=4Je2AAAAIAAJ&q=%22Nitra,+ako+jedno+zo+stred%C3%ADsk+rozpoltenej+Ve%C4%BEkej+Moravy+si+aj+v+ranouhorskom+%C5%A1t%C3%A1te+ponech%C3%A1va+funkciu+vojvodstva+(ducatus)+a+prezentuje+sa+ako+tertia+pars+regni.%22&dq=%22Nitra,+ako+jedno+zo+stred%C3%ADsk+rozpoltenej+Ve%C4%BEkej+Moravy+si+aj+v+ranouhorskom+%C5%A1t%C3%A1te+ponech%C3%A1va+funkciu+vojvodstva+(ducatus)+a+prezentuje+sa+ako+tertia+pars+regni.%22&hl=sk&ei=DWGBTt7bEIzesgbEtN2ODg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA: "Nitra, ako jedno zo stredísk rozpoltenej Veľkej Moravy si aj v ranouhorskom štáte ponecháva funkciu vojvodstva (ducatus) a prezentuje sa ako tertia pars regni." Nitra like a one from the centers of the Great Moravia has a function as a ducatus like a tertia pars regni. --Samofi (talk) 05:39, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

It is just a theory, nothing else. You can write it down at page of Principality of Nitra. Please see the map, Bihar county and Temes county (for instance) were parts of the Dukátus. Fakirbakir (talk) 09:25, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

maybe its theory but its sources. find a reliable english langue source. here next source about nitra ducatus: http://books.google.com/books?id=eUtOAAAAYAAJ&q=nyitra+ducatus&dq=nyitra+ducatus&hl=sk&ei=PZ6BTuCPGpGe-Qaw27HMDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA and here is the hungarian source: http://books.google.com/books?id=jpuFAAAAIAAJ&q=%22Vazul,+G%C3%A9za,+L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3,+majd+%C3%81lmos+herceg+uralma+alatt+a+nyitrai+r%C3%A9szfejedelems%C3%A9g+a+XI.+sz%C3%A1zadban,+mint+tertia+pars+regni%22&dq=%22Vazul,+G%C3%A9za,+L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3,+majd+%C3%81lmos+herceg+uralma+alatt+a+nyitrai+r%C3%A9szfejedelems%C3%A9g+a+XI.+sz%C3%A1zadban,+mint+tertia+pars+regni%22&hl=sk&ei=EqCBTou5C4Oc-wbKurTGDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA --Samofi (talk) 10:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

You want to make a harsh connection between Principality of Nitra (805-833(~900)) and Tercia pars regni (1048-1163). This is just a 'hypothesis' about 'continuity' and nothing else. It would be very farfetched. Principality of Nitra existed independently in the first half of the 9th century. Tercia pars regni belongs to the theme of Kingdom of Hungary.Fakirbakir (talk) 13:24, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Here is another theory: According to György Györffy the origin of the Dukátus has roots to the pagan past. "A Dukátusnak van pogány múltba visszavezethető gyökere". [1]Fakirbakir (talk) 13:39, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Duchy (Kingdom of Hungary). EdJohnston (talk) 16:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

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Ducatus → Duchy (Hungary) – Ducatus is a common noun meaning Duchy in Latin (see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/duchy). There were also other duchies in Europe: Ducatus Lithuaniae, Ducatus Romae, Ducatus Ultradunensis etc 79.117.139.133 (talk) 10:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

• • • • Oppose. If you had suggested Ducatus (Kingdom of Hungary), I might have supported your proposal. However, as per WP:NAME, your present proposal can hardly be accepted. Borsoka (talk) 10:18, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Why "ducatus" instead of "duchy"? Shouldn't English be preferred? English sources use the name "duchy" [2] 79.117.143.87 (talk) 10:23, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Please read the sources cited to substantiate the present use of this title. Otherwise, Duchy (Hungary) would rather refer to noble families holding the title "duke" in Hungary. Borsoka (talk) 10:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

A duchy does not define a family, but a territory, fief, or domain ruled by a duke or duchess. It is absurd to suggest that ducatus has a different meaning than duchy. Duchy (Kingdom of Hungary) is good too, if you insist to mention the form of government 79.117.143.87 (talk) 10:33, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Please read WP:NAME and read the sources, written in English, cited in the article. Borsoka (talk) 10:37, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok then. let's check your sources:

• Joseph A. Mikus, Slovakia: a political and constitutional history : with documents - also the name "duchy" is used [3]
• Ferenc Makk, The Árpáds and the Comneni: political relations between Hungary and Byzantium in the 12th century - also the name "duchy" is used [http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=keuETpKcAZDRsgaj0ajhAQ&ct=result&hl=ro&id=YL4hAAAAMAAJ&dq=Ducatus+Kingdom+of+Hungary&q=duchy#search_anchor}
• Paul Stephenson, Byzantium's Balkan frontier: a political study of the Northern Balkans, 900-1204 - also the name "duchy" is used [4]

Other sources using the name duchy: [5] [6] [7] [8] 79.117.152.83 (talk) 11:03, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. You convinced me, even so I would suggest Duchy (Kingdom of Hungary). Borsoka (talk) 11:25, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you too for understanding. We can also mention the Latin name in the first sentence. I agree with your proposal and, if you want, you can make the page move manually, and I will close this request then. Ducatus can become a redirect to duchy. 79.117.156.17 (talk) 11:42, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I suggest that we should wait some days (let's say 2 days), and then the movement can be made if there is no strong opposition. Borsoka (talk) 11:46, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment all these suggested names should become redirects to this article, if they are not chosen as the title of the article. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 03:43, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hungarian version

This should be merged with https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duk%C3%A1tus (problem is, I don't know how to). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1080:809:200:71E6:2E43:7B68:8871 (talk) 12:45, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

The two articles cannot be merged, but you can expand this article based on the Hungarian version. Borsoka (talk) 13:48, 30 August 2017 (UTC)