Talk:Droop speed control

just a start. It can get very complicated with many details .Wdl1961 (talk) 01:22, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Hard to understand

The article is hard for me to understand (coming from a science background, but outside the lively discussion on this page). I can tell there is a feedback system where gradual frequency shifts are related to the allocation of power loads among the various generators, but I can't tell the mechanism. Several technical terms are used without being explained, and I think there are also some unspoken assumptions or missing background information..

It seems that the design goals include both (a) consistent power production and (b) a predictable cycle count per day, and these are partially in conflict because (b) is sacrificed for (a) -- and then further improvements fix (b).

I write these details not to get answers for myself but to give ideas to the experts on how the article could be improved. 84.227.251.80 (talk) 15:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

This is nonsense

This is nonsense. Real electic supply comes from synchronous AC generators which don't have droop.Eregli bob (talk) 04:42, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your input.You are right that the generators are running synchronous with the power net but the frequency of the net changes constantly by some incremental amount. Sometimes it is major with dropouts . Read the references.Wdl1961 (talk) 05:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I would assume that when you say "generators are running synchronous with the power net" you mean to say that some A/C Generators are connected to the power net or grid in Isochronous mode. This is true of very large Steam and Gas Turbine Power Plants, and they are used to anchor the grid frequency. The smaller Gas and Steam Turbine Power Plants are typically connected to the grid in droop mode, which basically means that they are now slaved to the grid frequency. This also means that a change in grid frequency is perceived by the Droop Governor as a change in load and the control system of the prime mover will respond accordingly. However, that response may vary from control system to control system depending on how each control system software is written. Vernski1015 (talk) 18:49, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Droop control is real and works as described, but the description is too sketchy. Droop is used because it is not possible to have stable control with parallel integrating controllers on a tightly coupled network. The frequency of the network is controlled by wide-area dispatchers contacting those generating plants that can vary the power to enough generators to cause the number of AC cycles in a day to be accurate to 24x3600x60. This is why synchronous motor clocks maintain the correct time. The variations in loads generally cause 300 to 500 cycles to be lost during the day. These cycles are made back up at night.

Droop control is basically proportional-only control, typically with a 5% proportional band for generator shaft speed versus power throttle opening. The speed setting on the governor/controller is used to bring an offline generator up to speed and matched in phase so that the breaker may be closed. Once the breaker is closed, the speed setting is used to adjust the power generated by the governed machine. This adjustment helps to stabilize the network.

See http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/fist/fist2_3/vol2-3.pdf Hydroelectric power, with its unique regulatory capacity is a cheap and reliable instantaneous balancing power source.Wdl1961 (talk) 20:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to do with droop, then, I see. Don't quote the article text back as an argument, that's the reason the article is so awkward to read to begin with. That sentence is not good English. --Wtshymanski (talk)

References

Cleanup needed

• References don't support statements.
• References are low-grade (TV news coverage)
• Organization needs work, should logically flow instead of jumping around.
• Should discuss modern AGC control instead of electrohydraulic governors.
• Language is needlessly opaque and pompous, encyclopedia article need to be written in clear simple accurate langauge with a mimimum of cant.
• Sections should be relevant. See "hydraulic power" above.
• Weasel langague "It is often claimed..."
• The stuff about nuclear plants is irrelevant. Nuclear plants run at full output for economic reasons, this is not a good illustration for speed droop control.
• The cyberwarfare nonsense is about taking electrical plant control netwroks off the Internet, and is nothing to do with speed droop.
• What's an "infinite sink" ? This isn't even jargon, it's just wrong.
• Please explain the equation. "S is the ratio of frequency deviation when comparing the load versus the nominal frequency." isn't English, let alone an explanation.
• Not all generators in North America are synchronous. This claim isn't even relevant to discussion speed droop.
• Time control paragraph is borrowed from "utility frequency" and again has nothing to do with speed droop.
• Wikipedia style is to separate external links and refernences.
• The references section is called "References", not "Notes"
• What's a "droop curve" ? Can't figure it out from this article. An illustration is needed.
• Voltage control of several power sources is not practical because there would not be any independent feedback, resulting in the total load being put on one power plant.[3] What is this supposed to mean? This is rubbish, every netowrk connected generator has voltage control - this is conflating load control and voltage control.

And so on. This article needs a lot of work and reverting changes every time they are made is not constructive. --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:13, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

The two video clips listed were actually the same clip and don't talk about speed droop at all. --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

relative importance

It is amazing there are thousands of pages about electricity and very little about the most important part to keep the mess working. Wdl1961 (talk) 16:22, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

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Droop speed formula is inconsistent

As written formula gives [PU]; for percent, formula should include multiplier of 100.

12.3.203.132 (talk) 00:46, 4 November 2020 (UTC)