Talk:Dragonmead

Dragonmead was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 27, 2015	Articles for deletion	Kept
June 3, 2015	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former good article nominee

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This article was nominated for deletion on 20 February 2015 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

Contested deletion

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because it isn't. It describes the history of this particular Craft brewery in a manner that is entirely consistent with other similar articles. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have already removed the CSD template, along with what I perceive to be the elements that inspired its addition. There is a reasonable amount of coverage available on this subject, [1], which suggests that it meets the notability requirements. However, future expansion should be performed in a neutral manner. Yunshui ^雲 _水 13:11, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please restore the prior talk page which was deleted. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:34, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've restored the talkpage history, and the WikiProject banners above. Yunshui ^雲 _水 13:39, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

They've won lots of awards in beer competitions, including gold medals at the World Beer Cup. At least three of their beers are being bottled and distributed regionally and are exceptional: Under the Kilt (Wee Heavy); Final Abolution; and Crown Jewels. This article has been here for 9 years, and you thought there was urgency in getting rid of it? 9 years; 16 hours? Hmmm. The brewery is also noteworthy for having developed proprietary processes that enable it to put out 75 beers (from time to time) out of a very small brewery, and this has been written about in printed media. Many of the assistant brewers have gone on to work in other Michigan microbreweries; Dragonmead has been in the forefront and helped seed a lot of craft brewing here. (I don't have a WP:RS for that, and personal knowledge doesn't qualify, I know. But it's still true. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:55, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm more than a little concerned by the addition of the company's logo; according to the file page it's available under a Free Art licence, but it would be a very unusual step for a company to un-trademark their own logo, and I can find no evidence that they have ever done so. I suggest we remove the image from the page until it's copyright status is established, or move it back to Wikipedia from Commons and add a fair use rationale. For the time being I'm going to take it out as a probable copyright violation. Yunshui ^雲 _水 14:38, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a way for them to grant a limited license? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:42, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No - they either release it for free reuse under one of the appropriate licences, or they retain their rights (in which case we can still prepare a fair use case). There's no process for releasing something "only for use on Wikipedia" or "only for non-commercial use" that would enable it to be used on Commons. Yunshui ^雲 _水 14:51, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So it has to be fair use or not at all. Can't imagine they would give up their trademark. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:57, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't have thought so. I'd suggest the following course of action:

nominate the existing file (at Commons) for deletion as a copyvio
upload a new version (to Wikipedia, not Commons) with an appropriate fair use rational
use the new version in the article

Not sure if I'll have time this afternoon (I'm on a bit of a dip-in, dip-out spree, so have little time to do anything that's more than a few clicks); if you want to take care of it, feel free. Yunshui ^雲 _水 15:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've never done that before. And right now real life beckons. So if you could do that, it would be appreciated. p.s., I'm having trouble with a link in one of the references. Please take a spy-by. Cheers! 7&6=thirteen (☎)

You were missing a colon (the punctuation mark; I'm optimistically assuming that your digestive system is still intact). I'll see if I can sort the image out on Monday, I doubt I'll have time before that. Yunshui ^雲 _水 15:29, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently I did... Yunshui ^雲 _水 15:49, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinates

Latitude: 42.490908 | Longitude: -83.060446 Altitude 189 meters. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Facilities"

The article has a section titled "Facilities", about some unspecified bar. Unless some relevance to the subject of the article can be provided, I believe it should be deleted. Maproom (talk) 19:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Non-encyclopedic content

This series of edits effectively reverts my previous edit, where I removed content for it not being encyclopedic. No explanation has been given for this. I'm seeking consensus for whether this material, which I would contend is not pertinent to the notability of this brewery, should or should not be included. --Dweller (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the material you removed should have no place in an encyclopedia. It might be appropriate in promotional material. Maproom (talk) 15:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. No discourtesy was intended. I was actually focused on being repeatedly reverted at Little Ice Age. Sigh. That they have a kitchen is surely encyclopedic. I put this into a note {lots of WP:RS) so that there would not be WP:Undue. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:14, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Many breweries have kitchens, which are not, and should not be, mentioned in their Wikipedia articles. Maproom (talk) 16:46, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We can agree to disagree. We don't have a lot of editors giving us input on this. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The argument that it is not-encyclopedic is a poor one, because removing it removes the fact it has food service. The material is entirely appropriate for inclusion. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:27, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Article history

Articles for Deletion/Dragonmead which resulted in a Keep and Did you know nominations/Dragonmead which failed over a question of 5X expansion. There was a suggestion by someone at the time that it could be remedied by nominating it for a GA. I didn't follow up on that. GAs are a lot of work, and I did not want to make the effort. I don't think it was ever nominated for GA. Until today, I was unaware of a putative GA review. If I had been, I would have tried to address the listed issue. I don't know what that's about. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:26, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for digging those up. I added the AfD; as far as I can see failed DYK nominations don't go in article history so I left that out. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:14, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't care; it doesn't matter anyway. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:48, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]