Talk:Done Somebody Wrong

A fact from Done Somebody Wrong appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 4 January 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Allman Brothers Band's well-known 1971 interpretation of "Done Somebody Wrong" had four songwriters listed in the credits, but not Eddie Kirkland, who wrote the original song?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Done Somebody Wrong.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 03:16, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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... that the Allman Brothers Band's well-known 1971 interpretation of "Done Somebody Wrong" had four songwriters listed in the credits, but none of them were the actual initial writer, Eddie Kirkland? Source: see fns 5, 29, 33 in article
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Mi Shebeirach

Created by Wasted Time R (talk). Self-nominated at 22:44, 19 December 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General eligibility:
New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Good article! It's good to go with the original hook. RV (talk) 10:37, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hatnote

About this recently added hatnote, it seems unlikely to me that readers will be confused between "Done Somebody Wrong" and "(Hey Won't You Play) Another Somebody Done Somebody Wrong Song". The two titles are not particularly similar. So I would advocate for removing the hatnote, though if other editors think it should be left on, I would be open to that. — Mudwater^(Talk) 01:47, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The two titles are not particularly similar - I disagree, given that one is a superset of the other, and could reasonably be construed as a reference to the latter. My first thought when I saw Done Somebody Wrong (which I'd not previously heard of) was: what is the connection with "Another Somebody Done Somebody Wrong Song" (which I was familiar with). That being said, I can't find anything the explicitly links the two (which is why I did not add it as "see also"). Mitch Ames (talk) 03:40, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

When I was researching this article, my searches for 'done somebody wrong' constantly ran into the other song, and it's possible the reverse can happen, so I am okay with having hatnotes in both directions. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:57, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kirkland

Interesting research – it's not well-known that this song originated with Kirkland. An AllMusic review for a 1997 album includes "but particularly noteworthy as highlights are Kirkland's take on Elmore James' 'Done Somebody Wrong'".[1] Apparently, he re-recorded it with G. E. Smith and Cub Koda and gave hinself the sole writer's credit.[2] It may be worth mentioning the newer version in the article (there's also an official-looking audio-video "Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group".[3]). Also, including his original single in the main infobox may serve to better identify the song with him. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ojorojo: Go for it. I've already sunk more effort into this article than I had intended. Wasted Time R (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mudwater I notice that you added the infobox. What do you think about changing it to show Kirkland's single? —Ojorojo (talk) 14:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ojorojo and Wasted Time R: Hello! Thanks for the ping. I think it would be best to have the single in the infobox be the best-known one, and so keep the Elmore James one. I believe this pattern is used for some other singles on Wikipedia, where someone wrote a single and recorded it, and then someone else covered it and the later single became a big hit, though no examples come to mind at the moment. I also like how the current infobox lists Eddie Kirkland as an uncredited co-writer. That said, I'd be open to further discussion. — Mudwater^(Talk) 15:12, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mudwater: For older blues songs at least, there are many articles that show the original song/single in the infobox rather than the most popular (check those on the List of blues standards). Also, ABB's version is better known than James'. If James were to remain, I think a better way to handle the writer dispute is to just list "Elmore James (credited on single)". The current "Eddie Kirkland (uncredited)" may be seen as editorializing and not for the infobox.

But since Kirkland's original is mentioned several times in the James, mid-sixties, and legacy sections, there is enough to justify using his single details. I would also suggest a second infobox for ABB's version, since there is plenty of material to support one.

—Ojorojo (talk) 15:45, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ojorojo: Hmmm. I guess that makes sense. Yeah, sounds reasonable. — Mudwater^(Talk) 17:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For some, James' contribution of stop-time and slide makes the song and is heard in the subsequent versions by the Yardbirds, Clayton-Thomas, and ABB. But apparently, he thought enough of Kirkland's lyrics to use them. We'll probably never known why Kirkland didn't receive at least a co-credit. Credits on earlier blues song are often problematic; James surely knew that Robert Johnson wrote "Dust My Broom", but the label owner arranged for James' adaptation (the most famous version) to be filed for copyright and the same might have happened for DSW. There's no hurry and maybe others have an opinion.

Meanwhile, I was thinking of adding Kirkland's 1997 re-recording to the "Eddie Kirkland original" or "Attributions and legacy" section (interestingly, it uses stop-time and slide, but no RS for this). Maybe, When Kirkland re-recorded the song in 1997, he was listed as the sole songwriter, although "Done Somebody Wrong" is used as the title instead of his original "I Must Have Done Somebody Wrong".[liner notes, AM] It was released on the Telarc album Lonely Street and includes contributions from guest guitarists G. E. Smith and Cub Koda.[liner]

—Ojorojo (talk) 15:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've always believed that the MOS:FILMPLOT approach – where the film itself is the source, and no citations are necessary when summarizing the plot in WP movie articles – should be used for summaries of what recorded songs are like. If in listening to a record is obvious to any "reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge" that, for example, certain words are changed or certain instruments are used, then it should be allowable. But I guess I'm in the minority. Wasted Time R (talk) 18:14, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If it were only that easy. My experience with GAs is that something as simple as "it has slide guitar" needs a citation to a RS, because people with little or no musical knowledge or experience might think it's a steel guitar or heavy string bends or whammy bar action, if they even get that far. Similar problems have come up with 6- vs 12-string, nylon vs steel strings, etc., that I think are easy to hear, but apparently they aren't. I guess I see this article as GA potential or I wouldn't bother with the citations and such. Any thoughts on the infoboxes or the re-recording wording and placement? —Ojorojo (talk) 19:33, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but in some cases it's obvious to anyone. You can just look at a video of the 2004 Allmans performance and see that Derek is playing with a slide, Warren is not, and Gregg is over a piano. You can just listen to the David Clayton-Thomas 1966 recording and tell that some significant changes have been made, such as the 'If you need me, call me, and I'll coming running home' refrain that as far as I know doesn't occur anywhere else. And the RSes on subjects like this aren't always so reliable. This 1969 piece in a Saskatoon paper on the David Clayton-Thomas reissue takes his sole authorship at face value. Even better, three newspaper reviews of At Fillmore East, here in July 1971 here in August 1971, and here in September 1971, all say that "Done Somebody Wrong" is a David Clayton-Thomas song, no other authors mentioned! Like the Allman Brothers had decided to play "Spinning Wheel" ... so my reverence for RS over common sense on music articles is somewhat limited. Wasted Time R (talk) 20:36, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway, as for the Kirkland rerecording, I think you should definitely mention that Jaimoe plays on it. Kind of brings it full circle a bit. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:43, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes I'm surprised by the mistakes made by music writers, even well-known ones. Balancing what they write and common sense is part of the editing process. Good catch on Jaimoe – I wasn't aware of the name change. It might be a good note to end on: In 1997, Kirkland re-recorded the song for the Telarc album Lonely Street.[AM, liner notes] Although "Done Somebody Wrong" is used as the title instead of his original, Kirkland is listed as the sole songwriter.[liner] The recording features contributions from guest musicians, including guitarists G. E. Smith and Cub Koda (on slide).[liner] Former Allman Brothers Band member Jaimoe, who played on the group's original At Fillmore rendition, contributes the drums.[liner] In a review, their performance is described as a highlight of the album.[AM] —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. Note also that in 1997, Jaimoe / Jai Johanny Johanson was a current (not former) member of the Allman Brothers Band. — Mudwater^(Talk) 17:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I gave it a try. Change as necessary. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:40, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting Eddie Jaimoe connection

Great work on this. Jaimoe had been Eddie’s drummer just before joining the ABB, a little known fact. This is how he ended up being on the Lonely Street sessions and recording that song- this time with the original writer. I was in Eddie’s band at the time and Jaimoe confirmed this. Gregg Hoover 74.75.19.128 (talk) 19:08, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, interesting. I don't recall ever seeing a source mentioning Eddie Kirkland as one of the artists Jaimoe played with before the Allmans were formed, but I'll keep a watch out for it. Wasted Time R (talk) 23:45, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]