Talk:Domestic violence in lesbian relationships/Archive 1

Archive 1

"constantly takes place within lesbian relationships"

This phrase seems rather odd, as it implies that all lesbian relationships are constantly violent--which is obviously untrue. Is this really the best choice of wording? Perhaps 'constantly' should be removed.

Separately, has anyone looked into the possibility that woman-on-woman violence is similar to woman-on-man violence in that the abuser is a woman? That is, women and men alike are less likely to report abuse by a woman, as the stereotypes surrounding women mean that anyone who is abused by a woman is considered 'weak'. Covering this may not be Wikipedia's job, but if someone else has done so we may want to include it. ekips39 03:52, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Ekips39, I commented on this article matter here at the Domestic violence violence talk page. In that section, I cited the conflicting information on domestic violence in same-sex relationships and that domestic violence in same-sex relationships is not well-studied. At the end of that section, I explained to AVR22 (talk · contribs) why I rejected the WP:Undue weight material that AVR22 added to that article; I also stated, "This might be a good time to create a Domestic violence in same-sex relationships article, and then your content about lesbian relationships can go there, though it might still need to be cut down so as to not make that article too disproportionately about lesbian relationships. I don't yet see that there is a need to have a Domestic violence in lesbian relationships article." As you can see, it does not appear that AVR22 truly considered my advice and instead went right to Wikipedia:Articles for creation, where Joe Decker approved the creation of the Domestic violence in lesbian relationships article. In my opinion, AVR22 was only concerned with getting a grade with regard to WP:Student editing. Flyer22 (talk) 04:08, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Actually, judging by this and this, AVR22 did truly consider my advice, but did not beef up the article with more content beyond lesbian relationships; so Joe Decker chose the Domestic violence in lesbian relationships title for the article. Flyer22 (talk) 04:25, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. Now, AfC is triage, so please don't put too much weight into this--but if the sources and content are about lesbian relationships (or same-sex relationships between woman more generally, another possible issue with the title I used), we should end up with a topic that is specific to what the sources discuss. A general article on DV in same-sex relationships is appealing to me on the surface, but if we force sources that don't treat that as a combined subject as if they do, we're engaging in synthesis, and we mustn't. That's the concern--I haven't reviewed the literature, you have, so I'll leave you to it. Cheers, --j⚛e decker^talk 04:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

I see, thanks. Maybe there should be a separate article on domestic violence in relationships between gay men, then. ekips39 05:13, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

If that article is created, then it should be merged with the Domestic violence in lesbian relationships article to create a Domestic violence in same-sex relationships article; this is for reasons I already stated at the Domestic violence talk page. And by that, I obviously mean the conflicting and limited data that is out there about domestic violence in same-sex relationships. In my opinion, the Domestic violence in lesbian relationships article should not have been created, and what is in the Domestic violence article about these topics is sufficient. Flyer22 (talk) 05:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Joe Decker, by "or same-sex relationships between wom[e]n more generally, another possible issue with the title I used)," were you referring to the topic of the term lesbian denoting women who are exclusively sexually attracted to women? If so, like I recently stated in this edit summary when editing the article, lesbian is a broad term, and lesbian relationships may include women who identify as bisexual or don't identify as lesbian or bisexual." For another example, the first source currently in the lead is titled Understanding the experiences of lesbian, bisexual and trans survivors of domestic violence: a qualitative study. And for an example of another Wikipedia article that is not solely about women who are lesbians in the strictest sense, see Lesbian sexual practices. If it's a romantic and/or sexual relationship between teenage girls or women, it's usually called a lesbian relationship, regardless of sexual identity. This is similar to how if it's a romantic and/or sexual relationship between teenage boys or men, it's usually called a gay male relationship or a gay relationship. That is, if the couples are not termed same-sex relationships or homosexual relationships instead. That stated, as you may know, the terms women who have sex with women and men who have sex with men exist. Flyer22 (talk) 14:42, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Inaccurate title

Domestic_violence_in_lesbian_relationships should be Domestic violence in female-female relationships. Lesbian just refers to their gender and not their sex Boilingorangejuice (talk) 04:10, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Wrong, per my arguments above. This article is not simply about "domestic violence in female-female relationships"; otherwise, it would include moms and their daughters, and so on. It's about women (or teenage girls) who are sexually attracted to women and are in a romance with a woman (or teenage girl). Lesbian, like the Lesbian article currently states, is "used to express sexual identity or sexual behavior regardless of sexual orientation, or as an adjective to characterize or associate nouns with female homosexuality or same-sex attraction." And, yes, that is sourced. Lesbian is the standard term for same-sex romantic/sexual attraction between human females, which is also clear by articles like Lipstick lesbian; so this edit you made to the Rape by gender article is not necessarily needed. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:27, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

It may also be worth noting that no one uses the term "female-female" relationships in normal language, or in any other context of English, I would go so far as to say no one would find this article since that term has literally never been used. ShimonChai (talk) 05:47, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Misrepresented Statistics in "Prevalence" Section

"By contrast, some researchers commonly assume that lesbian couples experience domestic violence at the same rate as heterosexual couples, and have been more cautious when reporting domestic violence among gay male couples.[6] According to the statistics gathered from the local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies, and social service agencies, approximately 3.9 million women are physically abused by their female partners and 20.7 million are verbally or emotionally abused by their female partners.[3]"

The cited study: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00918360903543170

The relevant text from the study: "According to the most recent statistics (Bureau of Justice, 2003) gathered from local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies as well as social service agencies, 7% of women (3.9 million) are physically abused by their partners and 37% (20.7 million) are verbally or emotionally abused (Burke et al., 2002)"

The way the statistics are phrased in the "Prevalence" section says that 3.9 million women are physically abused by their female partners, and 20.7 million are verbally or emotionally abused by their female partners. However, the actual study does not limit the abuse to exclusively female partners. This is abuse targeted towards women by both men and women. Specifying that this is only abuse perpetrated by female partners is incorrect based on the cited study. I suggest removing this altogether as it is potentially factually incorrect based on the study. Ghoesch (talk) 17:03, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Ghoesch (talk · contribs), do be WP:Bold and correct or remove the misinformation. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 14:57, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Ghoesch (talk · contribs), I restored this piece, since you didn't note a problem with it. I'm the one who added that bit; it was taken from the Domestic violence article (which I also added to that article) and is directly supported by the source. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 07:51, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Flyer22 Reborn (talk · contribs), Thanks! Sorry about that. I was overzealous in removing the entire paragraph, my apologies. It looks good to me now. Ghoesch (talk) 08:13, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Plans for expansion, advice wanted

Hello, I have been gathering research about domestic violence (or intimate partner violence) in same-sex relationships, and I am trying to decide whether I should expand upon the same sex relationships section within the domestic violence article, or if I should create a new page about same sex domestic violence, or if I should take this page about domestic violence in lesbian relationships and expand it to include other same sex couples, as well as trans individuals. There is currently no article for same sex/LGBT domestic violence except for this specific one on lesbian domestic violence, and I think this could be improved upon, but any advice would be very much appreciated, please feel free to post on my talk page your thoughts. Kmwebber (talk) 20:12, 13 September 2016 (UTC)Kmwebber

I replied at Talk:Domestic violence. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:55, 16 September 2016 (UTC)