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Talk:Dolce Vita (song)

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UK package holiday

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Well yes, this is a stub, but I feel it was a particularly memorable and notable record as it was 'brought back' from European shores to Britain and made a hit in the autumn of 1983 as package holiday makers returned from abroad, a bit like the Birdie Song, but how do you cite such a thing? --82.15.46.131 02:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 19:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Ryan Paris - Dolce Vita excerpt.ogg

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The image Image:Ryan Paris - Dolce Vita excerpt.ogg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --22:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Synthpop?

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Judgement of genre sometimes seems a little subjective, n'est ce pas? To claim that this single is not synthpop seems a little churlish. There are plenty of sources that classify the single and/or the singer as examples of that genre: e.g.[1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. But I guess these would all be seen as "unreliable" sources. So which is the definitive source on what is synthpop and what is not? It can't be the Wikipedia article, of course, nor List of synthpop artists. But is there a suitably scholarly and wholly comprehensive authority to which we can turn? (Oh, and the song had a video, apparently, which some readers might find notable.) Martinevans123 (talk) 22:13, 20 February 2014 (UTC) but we have Mr Stürenburg's German-language source to tell us that it's "Italo disco" - one of many genres that employed drum machines and synthesizers.[reply]

.. oh and he made his debut on BBC's Top Of The Pops on 8 Sept 1983, although this German TV appearance looks much classier to me. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:30, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
For you this song is clearly a synthpop song. For me, it is a definitive Italo disco anthem. However these two genres are clearly different, even if they both heavily rely on synthesizers. Take a look at the New wave music and Synthpop articles, Italo disco is never mentionned (and you can notice both of them are correctly sourced).
I don't want to be harsh but none of your sources are reliable. One of them is for example a Discogs-like website and two of them mention "Italo disco" (Soundclound mentions "Italo-Disco Mashup" and Ivave.com copy-pasted Ryan Paris biography from Allmusic). A reliable source, Allmusic clearly associates Paris with the Italo disco scene. Also this French website associate both Ryan Paris and "Dolce Vita" with Italo disco. Finally if you take a look at this Polish book and if you search "Dolce Vita", you'll find a list of Italo disco artists and songs, including Paris with "Dolce Vita". Is it possible for him to find English sources instead of German, French or Polish references ? My answer is "no", I didn't find reliable sources in English (except Allmusic but this website doesn't explicitly describe the song as "Italo disco") and I sometimes use foreign languages websites when I don't have any other choice.
"Is there a suitably scholarly and wholly comprehensive authority to which we can turn?" Well, I fear not. About YouTube videos, I don't know at all if they are authorized or not so you should asked someone else if you can use them on this article. Synthwave.94 (talk) 00:58, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
By all means, be as harsh as you like. Your arguments are well founded, I'm sure. Alas for me one genre often blends, almost imperceptibly, with another, or even many others. Even if the New wave music and Synthpop articles are "correctly sourced", this doesn't convince me that one particular pop single can't successfully bridge two genres. And I'm still unsure as to what constitutes the basis of a reliable source for this topic. The discussion over the relative contribution of non-English based websites to this domain is probably quite a large one. I would imagine that each European country has its own particular view of pop music genres, some of which may overlap with those of UK and US, and some of which may not. Just because Mr Stürenburg presents this song as an example of "Italo disco" doesn't really convince me that's the definitive answer.
I'm also baffled by the unrelenting bias this encyclopedia seems to show towards Allmusic.com and against Discogs.com (which always seems to me to be a particularly well-researched and carefully presented catalogue).
Yes, I should have asked the BBC, shouldn't I. Presumably, somewhere, is a full list of TOTP episodes with the musicians featured. But in its absence, PenarthJem seems to be doing all of us a big favour, whether "authorized" or not.
Meanwhile, I beg you to consider the extended mix (for example in this beautiful TV dance routine) which, of course, probably has no encyclopedic value. Those off-key synth slider notes still make me swoon. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Dolce Vita" is one of these numerous songs articles which don't fail WP:NSONGS but for which it is difficult to find strong sources. However it's not forbidden to use foreign languages sources to tackle this problem. WP:NONENG clearly states "non-English sources are allowed." It's simply a matter of preference. "The relative contribution of non-English based websites to this domain is probably quite a large one." It sounds a little bit logical : Italo disco was a European phenomena. It's not surprising I found sources written in non-English languages. And even if you're still not convinced, the references I brought here are far more reliable than yours and you should understand "Dolce Vita" is not really synthpop but clearly Ialo disco. Like most Italo disco artists, Paris is Italian. Synthpop has never been associated with 80's Italian artists, except Giorgio Moroder but he is an exception to the rule.
The reason Discogs is used as less as possible is due to its user-generated system. Any administrator would say to you that you must not use this source, even to prove a single/an album has been released ! I know it's stupid but that's what Wikipedia rules say. Allmusic is regarded as a reliable source due to its reviews/biographies. However the sidebars reliability is "disputed". For example, nobody would call Paris a "Euro-Dance" or a "Disco" artist. So Allmusic is not perfect but is without no doubt more reliable than Discogs.
About YouTube, WP:YOUTUBE states "there is no blanket ban on linking to YouTube or other user-submitted video sites" and here's an example. So PenarthJem's or Top of the Pops 80s Archive's video may be accepted but again I don't know nothing about all of this and you should asked someone else to be sure you can add them to the article. Nice videos. The synth lines are melodious but I still prefer "Tarzan Boy" killer riffs (1:42 and 3:10) Synthwave.94 (talk) 19:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, so there are rules (which even Mr Moroder breaks, thank goodness) and I should understand. Yes, you're right, it is stupid. killer riffs? ... am dead already, alas Martinevans123 (talk) 22:38, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Moroder is an exception to the rule because he collaborated with new wave/synthpop artists and produced/wrote some of their songs (Berlin, Sigue Sigue Sputnik,...) and because he almost invented Italo disco. He influenced the entire Italo disco scene but he was also the pionner of the Hi-NRG genre with "I Feel Love". That's what distinguished him from typical Italo disco artists like Paris. yeah, Hi−NRG songs also feature killer riffs Synthwave.94 (talk) 01:01, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps we can just agree that "Dolce Vita" is not Hi-NRG. You see rules and I guess I just see examples. Wiki can be such a harsh mistress. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:52, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Describing "Dolce Vita" as a Hi-NRG song would be completly erroneous. However let's keep "Italo disco" for now 'til you find better sources for "synthpop". After all I eventually managed to find sources to prove "Come Back and Stay" is a new wave and blue-eyed soul song and not simply a "rock, pop" song. Be patient and wait, that's my only advice. (Yes, Wikipedia rules are unfair, sometimes exaggerated, but I can't do anything at all.) Synthwave.94 (talk) 12:05, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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