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Archive 1

Too much information

I was checking out this article and, OMG!, that's a lot of information there; some are too big and not necessary. The "Background" section is too small, with so many information that's just too much. The "Critical Reception" has also too much information. This user (who also edit a lot of Janet pages), needs to know how to do a less messy article, because it's too much. FanofPopMusic (talk) 22:53, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

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Janet Jackson image

@IndianBio: Please get consensus here before removing the image again. First you said the image has no contextual significance (it does), then you said it adds nothing to the article. I stated it adds visual identification of the character within the film. I didn't add the image but I don't agree with its removal at this point in time. If you need to ask for an RfC or ping other users you know are experienced in these matters, do so, but please don't revert again until there is some form of agreement. This is how it should go. Thanks. Ss112 06:10, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

I have nominated the image for deletion, comment there. —IB [ Poke ] 06:11, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Genres

I've noticed that multiple genres are littered throughout the article. I myself don't have time to fix them however, can we make sure that the infobox, composition and lead section all refer to and reference the same genres supported by reliable sources? This will support with the GAN → Lil-℧niquԐ1 - (Talk) - 09:57, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Doesn't Really Matter/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Coolmarc (talk · contribs) 17:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Great song, I'm going to start looking into this tonight. As someone in the talk page mentioned it is going to need a lot of pruning. CoolMarc 17:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

@Angryjoe1111: I've added some final comments for the Background and Development sections below. Please check. I would recommend merging the sections afterwards. CoolMarc 20:25, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
I have merged the two sections together and made several adjustments to both. I made some edits to the critical reception section, which seems like a WP:QUOTEFARM, and removed sources which are questionable, or only describes the film itself and not the song. I'll proceed to fix the music video and legacy sections, which is full of puffery and direct quotations. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
You've done a great job so far. The first section is a massive improvement from what it was. Please see below my comments about Composition. This section is a little bare at the moment and is arguably the most important part of the article. Maybe skim through reviews of the song and parent albums or do a Proquest search to see if you can find mentions of the song's production, structure, instrumentation, Jackson's singing style etc that can be included here to help it be broader in coverage. CoolMarc 09:40, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Criterion 1

It is reasonably well written.

a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

Infobox

  • No need for piping 12-inch single and CD single in the format parameter per Template:Infobox song Do not use " or ″ (double quote) for inches, instead use 7-inch rather than 7" (if it is necessary to abbreviate, use 7 in; see WP:Units). Numbers should be expressed in figures rather than spelled out (10-inch instead of ten-inch) and should not be used alone; an additional descriptor, such as 45 rpm, single, record, etc., should follow.
  • Genres references should not be in the infobox if already referenced in the body of the article, see WP:INFOBOXREF.
  • The length on the CD single is 4:18, this is the most relevant length as this is the length the song was promoted with during its single release campaign? What makes the soundtrack length and the All for You length notable, especially when All for You was released nearly a year after the song?
  • The CD liner credits Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis as producers before Janet Jackson.
 Done — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Background

  • The writing and production credit needs a source in the first sentence.
This still needs a source. CoolMarc 18:58, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
I've added the single's liner notes — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The claims about how much Jackson was paid are going to need a better source than a gossip column from a tabloid newspaper that has conflicting opinions from "insiders" and "sources" about the claim.
  • The Background and development sections have info all over the place that make for difficult reading and make it hard to understand how the song came about. For example you introduce details about the film in "Background" and then do the same with more detail in "Development" again? Same with the concept, The song's initial concept was based on a lyric draft Jackson had written and discovered, which she thought would be suitable for the film's theme. This made no sense to me until I read the article's Development section much later. I would suggest combining the info from both sections about the concept in a concise format for better flow.
  • Following its release, Jackson felt that it was "fun" and "a good summer song".[7] She initially felt unsure of how the song would fare, but was pleased with its success.[7] Fluff that should be removed
  • An unmastered version leaked and received airplay ahead of its scheduled release, followed by a positive response from critics and fans. Several radio stations created their own edits until the official version was released, prompting producer Jimmy Jam to exclaim "That's wonderful, because it means radio is excited about it." Jimmy Jam's exclamation is not needed and this could be trimmed into one concise sentence.
Try using this instead: An unmastered version of "Doesn't Really Matter" leaked ahead of its release date and received airplay from several radio stations who made their own edit from the leak. This also feels out of place here and would flow better at the start of the Chart performance section.CoolMarc 19:04, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song's success was likened to Jackson's return to a more positive and upbeat style in comparison to the bleak aura of The Velvet Rope, saying "In the history of Janet, the records that are the happy records, that make people smile, have always traditionally been the more successful records, going back as far to songs like "When I Think of You" to "Doesn't Really Matter"." - I initially thought what is a critic review doing in a section about the development of the song? Then when I read the source, it is the producer Jimmy Jam's description of the album. This does not belong here.
The first bit is still here. CoolMarc 19:05, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The decision to release the single was considered "the pop star's latest savvy step in a career that's a study in smart moves," continuing to "keep her youthful fans on the dance floor" while devoting time to her film career.[9][10] Broadcast Music, Inc. stated "music lovers continue to be mesmerized by the talented "Miss Janet", being an "impressive demonstration of her enduring appeal."[11] "Doesn't Really Matter" was ineligible for an Academy Award nomination due to being used throughout the film and during its credits, also released when emphasis was placed on songs used in animated films.[12] see previous. Unattributed puffery that does not belong here. The bit about it being ineligible for an Oscar, these are the Oscars rules... was there notable attention given to it not being eligible, was the song intended to be eligible and why is this mentioned in this section?
This is still here - either needs to be paraphrased to make sense as to why these quotes are relevant or removed. BMI are a primary source and their quote is clear puffery - definitely needs to be removed. CoolMarc 19:04, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded first source, removed second source — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Jackson stated that "it really tells you about the movie and how it doesn't matter what is on the exterior, but the interior. His heart, his soul, that really matters to me. That's what I'm in love with, that's what matters to me the most, and it doesn't matter what other people say." Adjust to the following and move to composition section as she explaining what the lyrics are about - According to Jackson, the lyrics are about Gaines' love for Klump and "how it doesn't matter what is on the exterior, but the interior." CoolMarc 20:07, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Development

  • Several years after receiving favorable reception in Poetic Justice, Jackson decided to attempt a romantic comedy. Jackson had been offered leading roles in The Matrix,[14] X-Men,[15] and Jerry Maguire,[16] but was unable to accept each due to touring. After auditioning, Jackson was cast as Professor Denise Gaines. this is info relevant to Jackson's bio and the film, not the song. CoolMarc 21:40, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Ref. 13 - do you have a Google Books link to the Billboard article for verification?
I have not been able to find the exact section from the book, however I have found the Google Books reference which would not let me read the sample. The reference was added since February 2014 after an inactive user uploaded over 56,000 bytes of information. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:50, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
According to WP:SOURCEACCESS, it should not be a problem unless it is nominated for WP:FA. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:56, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song's initial concept was based on a poem Jackson had written, discarded, then found in a notebook. The source doesn't say she found it in a notebook. "initial concept" is unnecessary.
This sentence needs to be paraphrased better as it is now exactly the same as the article from The Guardian. CoolMarc 19:11, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song paved the way for All for You, with Jam stating that "All for You" and "Someone to Call My Lover" and all those songs came off the energy of "Doesn’t Really Matter." the source for this comes from a WP:USERG Blogspot site and needs to be replaced or removed. CoolMarc 22:37, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
  • When asked to contribute a single for the movie's soundtrack, Jackson stated that she would consider the idea if she found an appropriate song This would flow better if placed at the end of the first paragraph from the Background section. CoolMarc 20:08, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Moved to end of first paragraph — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The film's producers were eager for Jackson's contribution, but had initially not approached her regarding fears of rejection, leading Jackson to initiate. Makes no sense. Either needs to be reworked or removed, doesn't sound very important anyway. CoolMarc 20:08, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Director Peter Segal brought a rough cut of the film to Flyte Tyme Studios in April, where Jackson had begun recording All for You. Jam recalled, "He said, 'Now that you've seen the film, if you'd like to do a song for it, that'd be great.'" Segal told Jackson that she was an exceptional actress after becoming convinced she truly loved Murphy's character, leading Jackson to suggest writing an up-tempo love song rather than a ballad. This would read better: To help Jackson record a song for the soundtrack, director Peter Segal brought a rough cut of the film to Flyte Tyme Studios where the singer was recording her seventh album, All for You. Jackson decided to write an uptempo love song rather than a ballad, inspired by Segall finding her love for Murphy's unattractive character in the film convincing. As with the previous point, this should be moved after the first paragraph in the Background section. CoolMarc 20:08, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Jam stated that "the lyrical idea for 'Doesn't Really Matter' is totally hers, but the music and melody was something I had done with one of our drum programmers, Alex Richburg. I thought of it as a slow melody, but we sped it up." Jackson wrote the remaining lyrics overnight. "We ended up with two different choruses," said Jam. "I wrote, 'Nutty, nutty, nutty, my love for you.' and she wrote 'Doesn't really matter.'" "The 'Doesn't really matter' chorus was better but she liked 'Nutty, nutty, nutty' and said we should put it at the end of the song." Please try paraphrase this. The article is a bit of a WP:QUOTEFARM at the moment, quotes need to be paraphrased where possible. CoolMarc 20:13, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Paraphrased; no quotations except for song lyrics — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Jackson presented three songs including "Doesn't Really Matter" on May 12, three days before the song's deadline enforced by Segal.[3] Segal decided that "Doesn't Really Matter" was a better fit and a "summertime record." -> Jackson presented three songs to Segal on May 12, 2000, three days prior to his set deadline for the soundtrack. He chose "Doesn't Really Matter", believing it was a better fit and a "summertime record". CoolMarc 20:20, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Composition

  • "Doesn't Really Matter" is lyrically inspired by Jackson's character in the film, who falls in love with Klump. This is redundant as Jackson says the same thing in the following sentence. CoolMarc 09:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
  • with Jam stating that it is about what counts on the inside. Same as above. Jackson says the same thing. Her explanation is enough. CoolMarc 09:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Moved to end of section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song has an R&B sound, which is inspired by Kevin "She'kspere" Briggs' digital funk production used in the discographies of TLC and Destiny's Child. -> "Doesn't Really Matter" shares a similar sound to other R&B music popular at the time of its 2000 release. It makes use of programmed funk that was common among Kevin "She'kspere" Briggs' productions for R&B girl groups TLC and Destiny's Child. CoolMarc 09:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The track begins with a twenty-second "breathy, mid-paced intro", before transitioning into a "spacious, electronic R&B club track" I think this could be paraphrased and better interpreted. The reviewer also says that intro "consciously mess around with people’s expectations of a Janet Jackson song at that time". I think this bit should be worked into this sentence somehow. CoolMarc 09:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Paraphrased and referred to sentence; unsure how to describe "electronic R&B club track" as a genre, when R&B is placed between electronic and club, which both redirect to Electronic dance music. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The dynamics also fluctuate, from stop-start verses leading to a double tempo chorus, to the mid-point breakdown eventually ending with the song's rapid conclusion. This doesn't accurately paraphrase what The Guardian says which is There’s also a lot going on with the dynamics of the song, with the stop-start verses gliding up into a chorus that’s almost twice the speed. Even when you can’t understand what she’s saying in the chorus, there’s a thrilling sense of kinetic energy to it all, which makes the smooth mid-point breakdown a welcome change of pace, before the whole thing skips off to pure delirium by the time she squeals “and best of all you’re nutty, nutty, nutty for me”. Try rewriting this. CoolMarc 09:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Expanded information into several sentences spread throughout the section. Might need to add more sources to fill some shorter sentences. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Entertainment Weekly described "Doesn't Really Matter" as Bacharachian with "bells and whistles in the production" and noted Jackson's "falsetto trill" on the lyrics "My love / For you / Is unconditional too".[9][10] The magazine also pointed out the half-time, stutter-beat verse to the sung chorus,[11] which is complimented by the track's "minimal percussive programming".[12] Try working this into one or two paraphrased sentences or even combine with previous details taken from The Guardian before. Things like "bells and whistles in the production" and "falsetto trill" do not need to be in quotation marks and can actually be wiki linked. "Bacharachian" is an odd inclusion, implying that it's a genre when it links to Burt Bacharach. I would leave that bit out to be honest. CoolMarc 09:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Moved various sourced pieces of information into different parts of the section. Replaced "Bacharachian" with Burt Bacharach, referring to the song's influences over description of the song. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I might add genres to the infobox once the composition section is sorted out. Some pieces of information are missing to expand the section, while I also have to determine which genres to include in the infobox using WP:EXPLICITGENRES as a guideline. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:21, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I have found a few useful articles on the Proquest database, not sure if you have access to Proquest? CoolMarc 09:27, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I haven't been able to access it. Are you able to link some sources here, as I currently have a few resources from the critical reception section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:47, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Here's some bits from articles I found on Proquest which you can try include where possible:

Added information to both background and composition sections. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Added to composition and paraphrased. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Added direct wording. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Added to both composition and critical reception sections — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Added to composition section — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Feel free to let me know when you are done with the composition and critical reception then I will continue with the review of these sections. CoolMarc 10:26, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

I think both sections should be good enough to be reviewed. I've deleted a few questionable sources in the critical reception section and added a genre to the infobox. There are a few gripes I have with the layout of the composition section and the formulaic listing of each review in the critical reception section. I have also reduced the length of the lead which contained unsourced information that was full of puffery. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 14:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The flow is a bit all over the place, and the composition section reads a bit like the critical reception now with Critic 1 said this and Critic 2 described it as that, when we could try keep it simpler and paraphrase where possible. Below are my closing suggestions for this section. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song is considered to be part of the pop and dance genres.[12][13][14] Move this to the top of the section, the genre details are the most important and should start this section. I would suggest rewording it to something more concise like "Doesn't Really Matter" is a pop, R&B and dance song. [Refs for each genre] CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded and moved sentence with references. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Film magazine Empire described it as "soulful hip-pop",[15] A bit of an ambiguous description from the film magazine and with hip-pop not being a known genre, I think we should rather leave this out. We don't know if they are referring to pop-rap. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Next I would suggest trimming "Doesn't Really Matter" shares a similar sound to other R&B music popular at the time of its 2000 release, making use of programmed funk that was common among Kevin "She'kspere" Briggs' productions for R&B girl groups TLC and Destiny's Child.[6] and while Jim Farber of the New York Daily News felt that it avoided genre cliches then by experimenting with an R&B-pop twist on neo lounge music. to a more concise Although making using of funk production, common in R&B music at the time of its 2000 release, the track was viewed as R&B-pop take on lounge music. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Trimmed sentence and paraphrased — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • This should then follow Chuck Taylor of Billboard likened the unique and radical sound of "Doesn't Really Matter" to Jackson's previous single "Runaway", stating that it was a throwback track of the previous era but rewritten more accurately, my suggestion is: Its upbeat pop sound is akin to Jackson's 1995 single "Runaway", a stark contrast to the sparse R&B of her previous album, The Velvet Rope. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Moved sentence, reworded. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • What would now follow nicely is the Burt Bacharach comparisons, Entertainment Weekly felt that the song's instrumentation is inspired by the work of Burt Bacharach and music from the latter half of the 1990s, which contained bells and whistles Entertainment Weekly didn't say it was inspired by Bacharach, but Farber said in his review for New York Daily News that it has a similar vintage melody. So we could instead say Music critic Jim Farber compared the retro-style melody in "Doesn't Really Matter" to compositions by Burt Bacharach.[both Entertainment Weekly and NY Daily News sources cited CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Merged sentences about Farber. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Cinquemani from Slant Magazine noted that the track contained "minimal percussive programming",[19] as well as minimalist pitter-patter and Latin flourishes. This is saying the same thing twice, we could simply say The production makes use of sparse, programmed percussion.This sentence would fit in nicely after the above Burt Bacharach comparison. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded and moved. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • I see we already have a mention of a stutter beat later from The Guardian source, so The beats are described as "skittering".[9] is redundant then. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed duplicate sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It begins with a twenty-second mid-paced introduction sung in a breathy voice. Michael Cragg of The Guardian thought that it altered the way people would place expectations on Jackson's music. Following the introduction, it transitions into genres of electronic club and R&B.[6] Each verse is composed in half-time while also utilizing a stutter-beat,[10] as Jackson performs a falsetto trill on the lyrics "My love / For you / Is unconditional too".[11 -> The song begins with a 20-second mid-tempo introduction performed by Jackson in breathy voice, and then shifts to a half-time verse with a stutter-beat. Jackson performs a falsetto trill on the lyrics "My love / For you / Is unconditional too". CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Rephrased sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The mid-point breakdown is considered by Cragg to be welcoming in contrast to the sense ofb kinetic energy provided by the chorus, where the song eventually shifts to "pure delirium" as soon as Jackson squeals the lyrics "and best of all you’re nutty, nutty, nutty for me".[6] -> A more fluid breakdown features halfway, offsetting the pace and high-energy dynamic of the chorus. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Rephrased — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Critical reception

  • Jose F. Promis of AllMusic described the song as both an "instant smash" and "impossibly catchy", stating that it was a contrast to the experimental approach taken from The Velvet Rope The change from The Velvet Rope is already mentioned in Composition section, and "instant smash" is referring to the success the song had on the charts. Rather use In his review of the single for AllMusic, Jose F. Promis called it "impossibly catchy". CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Reduced section, paraphrased. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 04:14, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Promis also reviewed several of the song's remixes, citing the "Jonathan Peters Club Mix" as the most superior as it transformed the original into a "summery, breezy dance record, complete with Spanish guitars and whistles". Rockwilder's "Dance All Day Extended Mix" combined genres of hip-hop and "dancehall although it was considered to lack the original's vibrancy, while the "Spensane Get Up Extended Mix" contained intense beats and accelerated production, causing Jackson's vocals to sound as if they were played at 78 RPM.[12] I feel like this is WP:UNDUE in a section about the original song's reception. More of a description than a review as well. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed remix reviews. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 04:14, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Writing for Billboard, Margo Whitmire hailed the "dancey" single as the year's "standout summer track" She's recalling that it was a summer hit on the charts, not a music critic opinion or relevant here. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 04:14, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • While Chuck Taylor described the track as "innocent fun", stating that it would be able to attract listeners on the mainstream and the rhythmic radio station I feel like his review has not been interpreted correctly, when he's calling it "frothy, singsongy" (implying that it's enjoyable but of little substance) and calling it a "leftover" from a previous era of Jackson. It's definitely a mixed review. CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Added neutral perspective from Taylor's review, moved to end of section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 04:14, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
It's better, but we need focus on his actual opinion of the song rather than its commercial prospects. I would suggest: Chuck Taylor of Billboard called the song "frothy" and "a leftover from another time", but argued that it was "innocent fun" and "a smile-bearing throwback" that highlighted Jackson's "still-youthful vocal musings". The citation should also be Cite magazine. CoolMarc 15:56, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed citation parameter, edited sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Chuck Eddy from The Village Voice regarded it as Jackson's best single apart from "Black Cat", reasoning that the song's "subliminal Asianness" aids Jackson's "pretty" voice in being "fragile like rice paper" in comparison to Kyu Sakamoto's 1963 song "Sukiyaki" -> Chuck Eddy of The Village Voice regarded it as Jackson's best single since 1990's "Black Cat", saying, "Somehow the melody's subliminal Asianness makes the nothingness of her piddly voice pretty—fragile like rice paper." It doesn't sound like he is actually comparing it to "Sukiyaki". CoolMarc 20:08, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Rephrased sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 04:14, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • MacKenzie Wilson considered it "sweet upbeat" and a large contrast from other songs on the film's soundtrack.[21] "Sweet upbeat" isn't really saying anything of substance and the other songs on the soundtrack were all rap songs anyway. CoolMarc 09:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed sentence — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Entertainment Weekly described the song as "effervescent" and a standout, while Joanna Molloy from the New York Daily News considered it to be a "breathy" number.[23] Joanna Molloy calling it "breathy" can be removed, not really a positive or negative view on the song. Reword to Matt Diehl of Entertainment Weekly found the track "effervescent", and cited it and R. Kelly's "Just a Touch" as the only two consequential R&B songs on the soundtrack. CoolMarc 09:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed New York Daily News source, expanded information form Entertainment Weekly. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Jim Farber from the latter magazine appreciated the song's innovation, stating that the song's "baby-breath" melody and light beat was able to accompany Jackson's vocals Farber actually gives quite a substantial opinion which could be expanded on. I would suggest: Writing for the New York Daily News, Jim Farber viewed the track as innovative, noting that it "dodges current clichés" and has "the yearning freshness of a summer breeze". According to him, "The baby's-breath tune and lightly skittish beat provide the perfect accompaniment for Jackson's coo of a voice." CoolMarc 09:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Added recommended sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song received praise from The Orlando Sentinel, saying it has "a beat you just can't help but hum along to". -> Melissa Marschheuser of the Orlando Sentinel wrote that the song has "a beat you just can't help but hum along to". CoolMarc 09:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Added sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • NME considered it a "comeback single" for the "pop queen",[26] This not really a review, just a chart commentary saying its Jackson's first single in a while. CoolMarc 09:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed NME source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • while CNN described the "pleasing single" as "peppy, radio-perfect" and "funky fun". They only call it a "pleasing single" according to the source. CoolMarc 09:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Combined sentence with Orlando Sentinel review, removed extra information. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • MTV News labeled it "a return to Jackson's more melodic, pop side" from her previous groove-based album The Velvet Rope" They didn't say this anywhere in the source. It's an interview with the song's producer Jimmy Jam. CoolMarc 09:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence to exclude "blissful", removed first Vibe source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It was also considered "a less suffocating shade of pop" for radio, both "blippy" and "joyful". Attribution needed. Sean Piccoli of the Sun-Sentinel called it a great song with "a less suffocating shade of pop" than other tracks on All for You. The Maura Johnston review gives a url error, cannot be verified. CoolMarc 09:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Added sentence from Sun-Sentinel, removed eMusic review; user contributed. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 11:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • While Liveaboutcom might be a reliable source, I think we can use better quality and more neutral music critic sources in this section, so I did some searching on the Wayback Machine for reviews from reputable critics used on Metacritic and found the following we can add:
Anthony Carew of Neumu found the song "surgically clean" and the production "suitably slick", noting that Jam and Lewis were "so self-conscious of their skills they cut-in the word 'edit' as a cute cut-up gimmick."Source
Carol Cooper of Sonicnet said Jackson's vocals "deserve special mention for the deft way she speed-sings verses and choruses so as to accent their underlying rhythmic patterns." Source
Dotmusic's Gary Crossing was more critical, calling it a "disappointing fare" with a "bland" vocal mix and said, "Apart from the key changes there's barely anything of interest here." Source
In his review of All for You for Entertainment Weekly, Tom Sinclair regarded the song as "competent hack pop". Source CoolMarc 15:56, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Added reviews. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • In a twentieth anniversary list of "The 100 Greatest Songs of 2000", Billboard staff placed the song at number seventy-three, with Danica Daniel acknowledging that it was lovely hearing Jackson "sing about inner beauty".[11] Danica Daniel saying it was lovely isn't really significant, rather just keep it simple here and say: Billboard included "Doesn't Really Matter" in its list of The Greatest Songs of 2000 at number 73.
Reduced sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Added The Guardian source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • I also think before we finish here, the section would need some reworking in structure. Maybe the more important positive reviews first. Reviews talking about the same thing near each other etc. CoolMarc
Structured section by positive to negative reviews, added year and decade-end lists on the last paragraph. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 18:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Chart performance

Added UK release as well as certification date from BPI chart source in certification section. — Angryjoe1111(talk) 11:41, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed specific date and unmastered release claim. MTV specifies that it was released between May 15–late May. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2020 (UTC
Updated release in infobox and lead, as well as in section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
I feel like we are not giving enough insight and accuracy into the radio leak now. The MTV source says "If you've caught it on the radio, you might not have heard Jam and Lewis' final mix. Jimmy Jam said the versions he's heard on the radio haven't been the version he mastered two weeks ago. He also said some radio stations are doing their own edits of the song" and Billboard said it received "early word-of-mouth heat thanks to radio leaks". CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Clarified sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Upon its release, it became the most added song on pop, rhythmic, and urban formats, also added to Hot Adult Contemporary Should come after the release details. Remove "also added to Hot Adult Contemporary" and "its", add "radio" before "formats". CoolMarc 16:02, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Added debut from Billboard Hot 100 source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 19:29, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
The song debuted on the Billboard Hot 100 on June 17, 2000 -> Billboard Hot 100 issue dated June 17, 2000. CoolMarc 18:03, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
We need to include "based solely on airplay" here. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Added "airplay" sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • selling 96,000 units in its first week.[28] The Google Books url needs to be fixed to say page 101. This is nothing to do with it being the most added song to radio and should be combined with the sentence about its climb to number one. According to the Billboard source, the song charted on airplay alone until it climbed to number one after its first full week sales (the 8 August 2000 CD and cassette release), although they note it registered a 75-1 climb on the component Hot Single Sales chart "where it debuted a week earlier due to street-date violations". CoolMarc 18:03, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed page, split into two sentences. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Remove the word "eventually" (POV). Replace "units" with copies to avoid confusion with album equivalent units now common in the streaming era. Specify "during its first full week of sales". The word "spike" can be simplified to "climb". The second sentence needs to clarify that it debuted at number 75 on Hot Singles Sales the week before due to early street-date violations. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed sentence, clarified Hot Singles Sales peak. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • peaking for three consecutive weeks before being replaced by Madonna's "Music". -> It spent three consecutive weeks at number one before being replaced by "Music" by Madonna. CoolMarc 18:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song peaked at number one on Top 40 Tracks and the Rhythmic Top 40, three on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, number nine on Hot Dance Singles Sales, and number two in Canada.[39] This belongs in this first paragraph as these are US component charts. They are also not verified by the Allmusic source. You would need to check Billboard to source these peaks. I would also suggest saying where the song debuted in Canada and in which week it peaked at number two. CoolMarc 18:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Added Canadian debut and peak; will need to source other charts from Billboard. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced AllMusic reference with Billboard sources. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
I also think that instead of using the the Top 40 Tracks peak we should use the Mainstream Top 40 peak in the chart table below per WP:USCHARTS. The Hot Dance Singles Sales peak can be added to chart table. Billboard chart history says it peaked at number two on Rhythmic and not number one. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced charts in commercial performance section, changed rhythmic chart in chart section. The Billboard website for Hot Dance Singles Sales only starts from 2013, as the previous chart was discontinued. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • and became her nineteenth single to receive a gold certification. per MOS:NUMERAL numbers larger than nine should not be spelled out so this should be 19th. We can put this sentence at the end of this paragraph. Maybe also mention when it was certified - September 25 according to RIAA database - and include from the Ref. 31 RIAA article that Jackson was the third female singer after Madonna and Whitney Houston to achieve 19 gold-selling singles. CoolMarc 18:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed numeral, added date of certification and sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
which became her 19th single to do so after Madonna and Whitney Houston does not read well. Clarify that Jackson was the third female singer after Madonna and Whitney Houston to achieve 19 gold-selling singles. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Clarified sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The 699,273 sales amount in the Certifications section comes from a fan site of the singer, therefore unreliable. Please use the 600,000 amount from Billboard instead and then we can also mention in the commercial performance section that it was the 13th best-selling single of 2000 in the US, with sales of 600,000 copies according to Billboard. CoolMarc 18:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed fansite certification source, used 600,000 amount, added sentence to section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
As of the Billboard issue dated February 10, 2001, "Doesn't Really Matter" sold over 600,000 copies in sales and became the 13th best-selling single of 2000. Remove the issue date as it was based on sales for 2000 only. The source also says the figures were rounded off to nearest 100,000 so the word "over" might not be the right word to use here. Also specify that it was the 13th best-selling single of 2000 in the US. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Clarified sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It was the first number one song by a female artist on the Billboard Hot 100 since Aaliyah's "Try Again" several months earlier, breaking the longest streak of male acts at the chart's summit since Vanessa Williams in 1992. I don't think this is really notable as "Try Again" was number one in June 2000, the same week "Doesn't Really Matter" debuted on the chart... Not really a long time and there have been MUCH longer streaks of male artists being number one since. CoolMarc 18:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed source and sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 21:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
  • In 2007, Fred Bronson of Billboard ranked it as the sixty-first most successful song by a female artist in the chart's history. -> In 2007, Billboard ranked it as the 61st most-successful song by a female singer in the history of the chart. CoolMarc 18:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song's success allowed the film's soundtrack to open at number four on the Billboard 200 on July 29, only behind Eminem's The Marshall Mathers LP, Britney Spears' Oops!...I Did It Again, and Nelly's Country Grammar.[34] The album was later certified platinum on August 24, 2000, with over one million copies sold in the US.[35] this is not relevant to the song's chart performance, and is WP:OR as the sources don't state that the soundtrack did well because of "Doesn't Really Matter", even though that might be the case.CoolMarc 18:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Added Australia and New Zealand debut and peak from chart section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
In Australia, the song debuted at the peak of number 28 on 20 August, where it remained on the chart for five weeks. did it remain at number 28 for five weeks? Please clarify. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Added sentence to clarify. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It achieved success internationally, reaching number five in the United Kingdom, number two on the UK R&B Chart, and the top ten in Italy and Denmark, as well as peaking within the top fifteen of Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and the Netherlands, and the top twenty in Switzerland. I feel like we can expand more on how it did in the UK with it being a major music market... In the UK, "Doesn't Really Matter" was released on 7 August 2000. It debuted at number five on the UK Singles Chart, making it Jackson's 15th single to reach the top 10 on the chart. Source The song spent 11 weeks on the chart.Source It was certified silver by the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) in October 2000 for selling 200,000 copies. CoolMarc 19:38, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Added European charts with references to chart section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Remove the bit about the UK R&B Chart peak. It's not really an important chart in the UK, unlike Hot R&B/Hip Hop Songs in the US. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed UK R&B chart. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • For Europe we can say In Europe, "Doesn't Really Matter" charted in the top 10 in Denmark, Italy, Poland and Spain.[References] It also reached the top 20 in Belgium (Flanders), the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland.[Sources] CoolMarc 20:06, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Added sources from chart section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Moved award to end of section, removed BPI award. Should I also include the year-end positions in the section, as well as adding a release history section for each format and region release? — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't think year-end positions are necessary but a release history table is always beneficial. CoolMarc 06:19, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
I've added a release history table. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Music video

  • Doesn't Really Matter" was directed by Joseph Kahn, and takes place in a futuristic city resembling Tokyo, Japan.[62] Should say: The music video for "Doesn't Really Matter".CoolMarc 06:37, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Added clarification. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed links — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • I'm also confused by this section saying both "takes place in a futuristic city resembling Tokyo, Japan" and "The music video was filmed in Universal City, California". More clarity is needed here. CoolMarc
Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The video was filmed during a turbulent period, in which Jackson was experiencing a divorce from unannounced husband Rene Elizondo, Jr., leading to intense media scrutiny and fluctuations in weight.[19] Needs to be reworded. CoolMarc 06:37, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence, added Rolling Stone article. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Is this really relevant to the music video though? I don't we should be claiming she had fluctuations in weight" on Wikipedia anyway. CoolMarc 16:14, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed sentence, not really notable to the video. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It cost over $2.5 million, ranking it among one of the most expensive music videos of all time. Grammar and flow. What costed over 2.5 million? The premiere on MTV from the previous sentence? CoolMarc 06:37, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Clarified sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Template:Inflation may be beneficial here, same for the lead. CoolMarc 17:45, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Added template. Not sure if it is the correct way to do it. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Expanded sentence. Used reference from removed blockquote to add context, along with a paraphrased quote from Jackson on Making the Video. I've used this old version of the article to paraphrase Jackson and Kahn's quotes in the section. The majority of the information removed were quote-heavy and unreliable, which is probably why there isn't too many sources I could find, considering that the official music video isn't even uploaded on YouTube. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed blockquote. Used reference to support Jackson's contact to Kahn. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • There is too much non-free media in this section. I think the images of Joseph Kahn and Jenna Dean are not really beneficial especially considering the Jenna Dewan image is from 12 years later. CoolMarc 06:46, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed images. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Should I write the synopsis in the MOS:PLOT format? There are a few sources that describe the video, but are either unreliable or from a primary source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes per MOS:PLOT is it fine, "The plot summary for a work, on a page about that work, does not need to be sourced with in-line citations, as it is generally assumed that the work itself is the primary source for the plot summary." CoolMarc 16:16, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Added synopsis. Will need to be copy-edited. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • After the shoot wrapped, Dewan was personally offered the role as one of Jackson's tour dancers in the All for You Tour by Jackson herself, dancing for her for two straight years.[64] She credited working with Jackson in the video, as well as "All for You" and the All for You Tour, for allowing her to later work with other major artists.[64] -> Following the video shoot, Jackson asked Dewan to be a dancer on her two-year All for You Tour, and apoear in the music video for her 2001 single "All for You". CoolMarc 07:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Added authors to section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Sun-Sentinel included "Doesn't Really Matter" among several videos which set fashion trends and increased the popularity of "must-have colors" in clothing among youth. The vibrant "red and orange" outfits worn by Jackson, including "sugary pinks and orange tees", items from the Self Esteem line, and "designer duds right off the runway," were described to heighten demand for similar "bright colorful clothes" This is a bit of an excessive sentence/quotation, is there no way we can paraphrase this and split into separate sentences? CoolMarc 16:32, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Rephrased sentence, removed excess quotations. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Matthew Trammell of The New Yorker noted that the music video's influence of consumer technology consequentially led to the popularity of Siri and Alexa in pop culture, as well as being implemented in Taylor Swift's 2017 music video "Look What You Made Me Do", which was also directed by Kahn. He also stated that the 2020 re-production of the AIBO model in Japan meant that the world is "closer to the bulbous, pastel metropolis conjured by Janet Jackson in one of the most forward-leaning music videos of its time".[59] WP:NOTED, I don't find this accurate from what is actually said in the source. The writer is basically just saying it was "one of the most forward-leaning music videos of its time, " and that Aibo became "something of a pop-culture icon". Maybe just stick to the source here. I can't imagine it was influential in popularizing consumer technology or Alexa and Siri 20 years later.... Regarding, "Look What Made You Do" the source says it "similarly bears Kahn's world-building thumbprint. Watch closely and you’ll see a kitty flash on an L.E.D. screen." I don't think that is really relevant to this article, maybe more suited to Kahn's. CoolMarc 16:32, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed a majority of the sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The video's popularity saw the AIBO ERS-210 robotic dog generate increased market demand and commercial success, after its appearance.[68] -> The AIBO ERS-210 robotic dog generated increased market demand and commercial success following its appearance in the music video. CoolMarc 09:27, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:03, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
I actually removed this now because the source doesn't support this and actually says "Aibo ERS-210, Sony’s second-generation “entertainment robot,” couldn’t even claw its way into the Nikkei Business magazine’s top-10 best-selling robotic pets of 2000." CoolMarc 10:09, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Artists including Britney Spears, Cassie, Jessica Simpson and Rihanna created music videos that were inspired by the video's futuristic aesthetic.[69] Refinery29 is not a high quality source, are there other better sources that claim this? It's a quite the claim! CoolMarc 09:27, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
A previous editor added this link and made some bold claims using these sources that the music video inspired them. There is a probable chance that Refinery29 used this version to write about it on the website. I think it's best to remove it. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:03, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Live performances

  • Jackson performed "Doesn't Really Matter" on Top of the Pops on August 4, 2000,[70] and the MTV Video Music Awards on September 7, 2000.[71] Jackson opened the show in a black leather outfit in an aerial set among multiple backing dancers. Her long hair was obscuring her face for much of the performance.[71] Top of the Pops can be a sentence of its own, introduced as a British music chart television programme. CoolMarc 16:41, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Separated sentences for both performances. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The Orlando Sentinel stated Jackson made "a rare TV performance" featuring a "three-tiered set and ten backing dancers".[72] "rare performance" - is this really needed? The bit about the tiered set and 10 dancers can be included in previous sentence about the VMAs. CoolMarc 16:41, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Merged sentences. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
She also appeared at the MTV Video Music Awards on September 7, 2000, opening the show in a "three-tiered" aerial set among ten backing dancers.[69] I would suggest rewiring to this: She also performed the song at the 2000 MTV Video Music Awards on September 7, opening the show from a three-tiered aerial set with 10 backing dancers. CoolMarc 10:39, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:51, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added three sources. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Popcrush are unreliable per WP:ALBUMAVOID. CoolMarc 10:39, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:51, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • In 2001 and 2002, "Doesn't Really Matter" was included on the All for You Tour as the encore.[73] For the performance, she wore demure white tee and jeans. Rolling Stone considered the rendition "jubilant and "spirited", while MTV News called it "a fully PG Janet".[73][74] A writer for New York Daily News said Jackson performed a "stripped-down "Doesn't Really Matter" with no choreography or dance troupe to hide behind." The tour's performance was also praised for allowing Jackson to appear "looser", which effectively "cut the self-consciousness and relaxed into more natural moves".[75][76] Jam! Canoe considered the tour's performance "upbeat and warm".[77] Jackson wearing jeans and a t shirt is trivial. I'm also not convinced each publication's commentary is needed seeing as they didn't go to every tour date. Were all performances on this tour stripped back? Something along those lines would be worth including. CoolMarc 20:34, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed trivial information. The tour's encore seems to be the only stripped back part of the tour despite what Sun-Sentinel wrote. Rolling Stone stated that the encore was "jubilant", while New York Daily News described it as a "looser section at the end" where she "cut the self-consciousness and relaxed into more natural moves". The remaining reviews of the tour are sourced in the main article as newspaper citations, which are difficult to access. I removed the MTV source, as the website wasn't able to open up. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • For her first concert tour in six years, "Doesn't Really Matter" was included on the 2008 Rock Witchu Tour. ->"Doesn't Really Matter" was performed during Jackson's 2008 Rock Witchu Tour, her first concert tour in six years. Are there details about the arrangement of the song for this tour, or if it was performed with choreography or a live band for example? CoolMarc 20:41, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Added source about tour. Not too many sources available online. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The New York Times praised the performance saying "it's the closest she gets to representing life as lived rather than as performed".[79] which performance? Did they go to every tour date? As per above I'm not sure if this even needed. CoolMarc 20:50, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Clarified specific performance — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song's music video was played on screens preceding the opening number for selected dates. Sentence needs to be rewritten for clarity and easier reading. CoolMarc
Clarified sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Jackson included the song on her second leg of the 2018 State of the World Tour,[82] as well as on her 2019 Las Vegas residency, Janet Jackson: Metamorphosis.[83] - > The song was also included in the set lists for the second leg of Jackson's 2018 State of the World Tour and her 2019 Las Vegas residency, Janet Jackson: Metamorphosis. CoolMarc 20:50, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 05:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The performance was ranked by Vibe as one of the "10 Iconic Janet Jackson Performances",[71] - >Vibe included the performance in its 2015 list of 10 Iconic Janet Jackson Performances. CoolMarc 10:39, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Updated sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:51, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Jeff Stark of Salon was divided, calling the dance routine "elaborate" despite sounding like a majority of songs on the radio.[73] Salon should be in italics. I wouldn't say he was divided he just said the performance was elaborate and the song itself similar to other songs on the radio. CoolMarc 10:39, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Italicized Salon, reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:51, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Jackson dedicated the song to the audience while performing in Santa Barbara, California.[80] Trivial. I'm sure most artists do this all the time. CoolMarc 10:39, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed sentence and source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 10:51, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Clarified sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:21, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
I couldn't find anything about the song besides a passing mention from a website for the residency. Both tours seem to be based around the Rhythm Nation 1814 album and experiences with motherhood. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 13:21, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Japanese singer Hitomi Shimatani covered the song under the title "Papillon" for her debut studio album of the same title. The song sold over 200,000 copies, which allowed her to become one of the top artists on Avex Trax. Should be "2001 debut album of the same name" with no italics. Specify that Avex Trax are the record label she was signed to. Do we know if JpopAsia are a reliable source? CoolMarc 20:57, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed. I just looked at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 247#Reliable sources for Japanese-related articles. The consensus from the discussion seems to be based on context, assuming that artist interviews may be fine in contrast to fan-translated articles. I saw some sites mention that the song peaked at number 14 on the Oricon chart in 2001, however there are no reliable sources I could find to add this. The template also doesn't include some years, while the official website doesn't document when the song charted. Should I just exclude this information? — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
There might be archives on web.archive.org you could look for using similar urls from Oricon sources used on Wiki. CoolMarc 10:48, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Shimatani was presented with the idea to cover the song due to its success, as it was constantly played when her staff were overseas.[85] According to the interview, Shimatani says "The song had a big impact - when the staff went overseas it was played repeatedly." so we don't know which staff this is and who presented the song to her either. I think rather just leave this out. CoolMarc 21:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • According to the source Jackson requested the lyrics to be different from the original and the release of Shimatani's version should be canceled. The source also says the singer's label were "forced to stop shipping CDs". CoolMarc 21:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
My impression is that Jackson didn't want the lyrics to differ from the original song and finally relented when she listened to the cover. Maybe we need a Japanese user to interpret the sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
It would be worthwhile to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan maybe? CoolMarc 10:48, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added using AllMusic source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Glenn Gamboa of Newsweek considered Rihanna's "Watch n' Learn", from her sixth studio album Talk that Talk, an "answer to Janet Jackson's "Doesn't Really Matter" due to its similar production and "playful" nature This is WP:UNDUE. He only said it "feels like her answer" to "Doesn't Really Matter". CoolMarc 21:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Geoff Mayfield of Billboard likened Destiny's Child to being influenced by Jackson's strategy of releasing a soundtrack single shortly before an album campaign with "Doesn't Really Matter" for "Independent Women", stating that the group "began planting the seeds for the upcoming release" in a similar vein.[91] Also WP:UNDUE. Many artists did this in 2000 before Janet, she didn't start a trend or influence anyone. All Saints, Aaliyah, Madonna to name a few did this before Doesn't Really Matter was released the same year. CoolMarc 21:18, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song was used in the international arcade releases of the Dance Dance Revolution SuperNova series and Dance Dance Revolution X.[92] Do we have third party coverage for this to establish if this is notable for inclusion? CoolMarc 21:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed. No song from the game has third party coverage. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • In 2012, Democratic political strategist Richard Socarides selected "Doesn't Really Matter" for a live playlist on CNN.[93] The source says the playlist is Bridget Siegel's, an author and fundraiser organizer. CoolMarc 21:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
The source read that the guests select their song to be played on Starting Point, which was a CNN morning show. I removed the source as it isn't notable and just trivial information. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • In September 2013, record producer and radio personality Mister Cee included "Doesn't Really Matter" blended with Maino's "Hi Hater" during a live set upon his return to famed New York radio station Hot 97 following several solicitation allegations, saying "Just listen to the words." The inclusion of Jackson's song was considered to subliminally reveal his bisexuality, called the set's "most triumphant moment", and a response to critics in opposition of his sexual orientation.[94] Trivia. CoolMarc 21:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 07:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Track listing and formats

Changed section name. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Used template. There are some discrepancies between the sources having no duration listed for each track. Should I just leave the length column blank? — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
I've removed all the eil.com sources and replaced them with liner note sources. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added formats to infobox and updated release history section. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Awards and nominations

Removed section. Most awards are stated in different sections of the article, remaining awards have no secondary sources. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 08:42, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Charts

Fixed. Not sure if it's the correct way to do it. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:04, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:04, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:04, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 09:04, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead

  • Doesn't Really Matter" is a song recorded by American singer Janet Jackson for the soundtrack to the 2000 film Nutty Professor II: The Klumps, and on her seventh album All for You as a slightly modified version "slightly modified" isn't essential for the lead. Let's keep this concise and say "Doesn't Really Matter" is a song by American singer Janet Jackson from the the soundtrack to the 2000 film, Nutty Professor II: The Klumps, and her seventh studio album, All for You (2001). CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • "Doesn't Really Matter" is a pop, R&B and dance song that speaks about loving a person for who they are and disregarding their physical appearance. I would suggest separate sentences for music and lyrics and giving more info about the song's sound/composition here. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Separated sentences. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The track is based on an incomplete poem Jackson had written I'm not sure if the poem was incomplete? It was disposed of and rediscovered. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song was a contrast from the dark tone of her previous album The Velvet Rope, returning to a brighter and more contemporary sound The contrast description needs to be in line with what the sources have said and what's in the body of the article. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The song generally received positive reception, Rewrite as: "Doesn't Really Matter" received generally positive reviews from music critics" and mention what they mostly wrote positively of about the song. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • becoming Jackson's ninth number-one single in the United States after peaking on the Billboard Hot 100 for three weeks. Rewrite as The single topped the US Billboard Hot 100 for three consecutive weeks, becoming Jackson's ninth US chart-topper. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Reworded sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It was Jackson's 19th single to be certified gold and the 13th best-selling single in 2000, selling over 600,000 copies in sales. We can expand more on the first bit, second bit is not really lead worthy. I suggest It was Jackson's 19th single to be certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America, making her the only third singer, after Madonna and Whitney Houston, to achieve this feat.
Replaced sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It reached number five in the United Kingdom, where it attained a silver certification. I feel like it becoming het 15th top 10 hit there is more notable than it being certified silver. So maybe say "Doesn't Really Matter" peaked at number five on the UK Singles Chart, becoming Jackson's 15th single to reach the top 10 in the UK. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • It had a reported cost of over $2.5 million (equivalent to $3.7 million in 2019), causing it to become one of the most expensive music videos of all time. Is it a fact or only speculation? If a fact, rewrite to Production of the video costed over $2.5 million (equivalent to $3.7 million in 2019), making it one of the most expensive music videos of all time. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • I feel like AIOBA dog and Jenna Dewan's appearance can be mentioned in one concise sentence. What Jenna Dewan did after the video is not notable to the lead of this song article. CoolMarc 17:06, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Condensed sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Added sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 02:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Criterion 2

It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
References

I will be checking all the references and each comment below is under their number as they existed at this time. The order in the article may change from this numbering as refs get moved, added or deleted. Every effort should be made to identify author(s). Please check that magazines use Cite magazine, newspapers Cite newspaper etc. Do not WP:OVERLINK in references. Linking of websites, magazines etc should be linked in the first reference they appear in only, unless this is the result of a template such as Template:Singlechart. CoolMarc 17:23, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Removed reference. Already stated in first sentence. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • [Ref 4] and [[Ref 5] Ebony and USA Weekend should use Cite magazine, and are missing authors, issue, volume and issn. I could verify these sources but I am assuming good faith. CoolMarc 18:41, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Added url for Ebony. Couldn't find it for USA Weekend. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Couldn't find an online source on Google Books. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed from genre list. Removed previous source [Ref 2] so it is still linked. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed and unlinked. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • [Ref 18] Entertainment Weekly Rv overlink, this is available online please use the online url, it does not support "then shifts to a half-time verse with a stutter-beat" in the Composition section. Perhaps a source got lost for this during the edits from this reviews? CoolMarc 18:41, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed from composition section, kept in critical reception section. Maybe we could add the "skittering" source back. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Added access date. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • [Ref 33] rv overlink of Billboard. Only needs to be cited at the end of "It was Jackson's ninth US number-one single and made her the first singer to achieve a number one in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s in the US" per WP:REPCITE. CoolMarc 18:41, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed and moved — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • [Ref 41] rv overlink of Billboard. Missing page, volume, issue. Could not verify, and I am not sure if I can assume good faith here based on the amount of fan cruft we have found. CoolMarc 18:41, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed information just to be sure. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Unpiped — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed overlink. Couldn't find source. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • [Ref 70] archive link should display first as the original is dead. Via parameter for Sonicnet. Website parameter for MTV News (not linked). CoolMarc 18:41, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Fixed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed overlink. Kept source, might describe the "stripped down" performance. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced parameter. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Added — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Replaced parameter — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed overlink, replaced parameter. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed overlinks. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Removed — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 01:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Criterion 3

It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects): b (focused): CoolMarc 18:44, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Criterion 4

It follows the neutral point of view policy.

Fair representation without bias: CoolMarc 18:44, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Criterion 5

It is stable.

No edit wars, etc.: CoolMarc 18:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Criterion 6

It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Replaced capital letters. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Music sample: Sample is more than 10% of the song. More relevant to the Composition section, perhaps the sample can rather illustrate something from this section instead? CoolMarc 18:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
I used the Nutty Professor II soundtrack version, which is why it exceeded the sample length. Is there a specific example from the composition section I could use, as the song's lengthy verse and chorus wouldn't be able to cover many elements in 24-25 seconds. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 03:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
@Angryjoe1111: I suggest maybe saying something such as "A 16-second sample of the chorus which is nearly twice the speed of the stop-start verses." I see Dotmusic source mentions the key change, which can be heard in the sample also. CoolMarc 09:25, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
I shortened the sample to 24 seconds according to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music samples#What is the maximum length permitted? and added the Dotmusic source into the composition section although it is mentioned in the critical reception review. The two sources used at the end of the sample caption do not directly mention both pieces of information although they can be heard in the sample. Does this contradict WP:OR or can it be used as WP:PRIMARY? — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 12:38, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
It might be better to just mention the first sentence of the caption then. CoolMarc 13:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Looks fine now. CoolMarc 15:01, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Overall

Overall:

Pass/Fail:

What an experience this has been! You have done an amazing job in turning this article around, well done! Just the lead and criterion 2 and 6 left. I am putting this on hold until these are addressed and then we should be good for GA! CoolMarc 18:57, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

All looks good now. I'm passing, congrats! CoolMarc 15:01, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for reviewing the article! It took a bit of time to copyedit and eliminate some unnecessary information that was added over 6 years ago, but the article is looking a lot neater now. I noticed you had a bit of trouble attempting to fix "New Love" for GA and happened to identify some issues with a few sections. If it is fine with you, I could also fix a few of these problems and provide some informal comments on the talk page discussing what needs to be changed. — Angryjoe1111 (talk) 15:30, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Yes of course, any feedback is welcome. Feel free to comment of the review page. Thanks! CoolMarc 16:20, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Archive 1
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