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Djellaba is not berber

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It's much better saying north african than berber, because Moroccan culture is mixed arabs, berbers, europeans...etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.49.166.177 (talk) 13:47, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A question for experts

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The Garment used for the pic at the beginning of the article has a zip up to the neck. None of mine have zips, and I have never before seen one with a zip. Same with my gandoras. The fabric looks identical to one of mine, bought about 20 years ago. My question is, do proper djellaba have zips? -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 15:46, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm running out of patience ! -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 21:03, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No they do not come with a zipper . It’s true that designers nowadays are introducing new elements to the traditional clothing however it’s not common to wear a djellaba with a zipper by neither men nor women. Mr bott1 (talk) 09:43, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Simiot Bernard is not a historian he is a novelist

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I can't believe that ppl think that historical fiction is reality 😳 😐 Sl99dl (talk) 02:38, 5 April 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. M.Bitton (talk) 23:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I’ve already explained here and here that Bernard Simiot is a historian, I don’t think it is necessary to keep repeating the same thing over and over again, so, per WP:POINT I suggest you stop removing sourced content.
Regards, Kabz15 (talk) 16:45, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I've read some of his novels myself, he uses historical events and combines them with FICTION like "Ces messieurs de Saint-Malo" which is a novel , here u can find all of his sagas and novels which are FICTIONAL, he studied law and not history , all of your argument are false you gave me the link to La Revue maritime but you kind of shot yourself in the foot because he only talked about la vie littéraire aka literary life, he is a french novelist you can't change that. i know you can read frensh so here is his bio on wikipedia read it please. Lana malih (talk) 19:46, 5 April 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. M.Bitton (talk) 23:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
he was a frensh novelist [1] not a historian [2] Lana malih (talk) 19:53, 5 April 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. M.Bitton (talk) 23:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, thanks for the comment. To sum up your argument it seems what you are saying is that the source is unreliable because Bernard Simiot is not a historian (although he is) and that he writes novels. Your argument about him writing novels and giving examples of novels that he has written is irrelevant, this discussion isn’t about the content he wrote in those novels it is about what he wrote here, which is not a novel but an archival journal and one of the subjects it focuses on is history. Moreover just because he is a novelist it doesn’t mean that he isn’t a historian, I have already sent you enough proof confirming that he is a historian which you keep on ignoring, but I’ll provide you with the proof once again:
Regards, Kabz15 (talk) 01:48, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
did you read what simiot wrote in Hommes et mondes?? I DON'T THINK SO, but let me tell u what he wrote because you obviously don't care. he wrote about les oies du capitole which is a myth how could you use a myth to justify your statments? also the review didn't mention anything about the djellaba which by the way must have a cap. you gave me some random web site to justify that he is historian but he is not he never was .all of his work is novels cuz that's what he does best, he did join the army and he did talk about solders and events that occured in his life time in France like in '' de latte'' but other than that he never publidh other than historical novels led by his imagination.
to sum up, Simiot did not study history never published aby book about the history of Numidia nor was he a researcher on the subject. and the worst is that you're using a magazine where simiot words were based on a myth and being the ignorant you are you were ready to compare any garment to djellaba. not every garment is a djellaba. Lana malih (talk) 03:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. M.Bitton (talk) 23:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You keep on using the same baseless arguments that I have already acknowledged multiple times, this seems to be a case of WP:JDLI. Firstly why say “and being the ignorant you are you were ready to compare any garment to djellaba”? I suggest you stop the personal attacks, aggressiveness and wrongfully accusing me of things I did not say. Secondly “you gave me a random website”, ironic considering that you sent me a wikipedia page that did not have a single reference to justify that “he was not a historian”. You keep on POV pushing this baseless argument that he was not a historian despite the fact that I have already repeatedly sent you sufficient proof confirming that he was a historian. You claimed that the text did not mention the djellaba and that he wrote about a myth, even if the historical subject he wrote about was a myth as you claim, his statement about the djellaba was not within that context:“Ma djellaba de laine brune aux longues rayures noires sur laquelle je viens de coudre mon premier petit bout de galon d'or , c'est la rude tunique des cavaliers numides”. In this quote he clearly identifies the djellaba as a garment that was worn by the Numidian cavalry. Furthermore your argument about the source being unreliable is invalid, the source which is an archival journal is part of the JSTOR Archival Journal collection:
“JSTOR archival journal collections are where scholars go to link past and present, forge new connections, and build on great ideas.
Archival Journals
The collections feature the full-text articles of more than 2,600 academic journals across the humanities, social sciences, and natural sciences. Journals span continents and languages, with titles from 1,200 publishers from 57 countries. Collections include multi-discipline, discipline-specific, and region-based packages.
Many JSTOR collections are multidisciplinary and comprised of several core subjects, including language and literature, history, economics, and political science. Discipline-specific collections are also available to support focused educational programs, and range from health and science collections to music, Jewish studies, and Iberoamérica.”
“Quality: JSTOR collections are curated, and all journals must meet specific criteria and undergo a review process in order to join JSTOR. This includes journal rankings, in depth examination of research and citation data, and more.”
Regards Kabz15 (talk) 16:58, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
you don't have a proof he is a historian here are my arguments first he has no educationnal background, second here is all the books he has ever written
  • Paradis perdus. Bernard Simiot. ...
  • Ces messieurs de Saint-Malo. Bernard Simiot. ...
  • Carbec, mon empereur. Bernard Simiot. ...
  • Moi Sylla, dictateur. Bernard Simiot. ...
  • De quoi vivait Bonaparte ? Bernard Simiot. ...
  • Rendez-vous à la Malouinière. Bernard Simiot. ...
  • Le Temps des Carbec. Bernard Simiot.
  • De Lattre
  • Suez, cinquante siècles d’histoire guess what none of them are about history itself, see in all these books he either talks about fictionnal stories or share his own story when he joined the army nothing more, finally if he was a historian he would do research, analyze, interpret, and write about the past by studying historical documents and sources but no he does not. you talked about refrences ? a normal historian knows that Any evidential claim in history that is informative and credible must itself be justified in the context of other things known about the past [3] in the case of Bernard simiot NONE of what he says is supported by anykind of proof which is normal consedering that he is a novelist tell stories to entretain his readers and not a historian.
  • even his son never mentionned him as a historian "Ces Messieurs de Saint-Malo" : l'histoire d'un best-seller racontée par le fils de l'auteur | Le Pays Malouin (actu.fr)
  • Saint-Père - Malouinière. Un écrivain à La Picaudais - Le Télégramme (letelegramme.fr)
  • even other actual historians do read his novel and confirm that he use real events and fiction Jean Lebrun, de Saint-Malo à Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon (ouest-france.fr)
  • Bernard Simiot ne figure pas sur les tablettes de la grande critique, mais c’est un écrivain abondant, rodé au journalisme, au récit historique et à la biographie réelle ou imaginaire : il a beaucoup écrit et on voit qu’il aime écrire. Il a choisi un lieu propre à porter l’imagination des lecteurs
Lana malih (talk) 20:43, 6 April 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock. M.Bitton (talk) 23:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You can’t use words mentioned in passing in some old sources WP:STICKTOSOURCE the text supplied never showes evidence of research the author could have simply used the term to refer to algerians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.214.205.151 (talk) 15:57, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unless What bernard simiot wrote was a research about the history of Djellaba, then this is a clear mis interpretation of the source, we can't just quote a phrase from a novel where the writer used metaphoric language and use it to justify a bold claim as that, the role of the community here is to study sources very carefully, we agree simon is a hisstorian, but you should come up with an academic research of him where he talk about the history of djellaba or the numidians clothing habits, otherwise it's a bold claim ! 160.179.12.170 (talk) 18:51, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Kabz15 Another solution is to rephrase the sentence to match the source more conveniently ! 160.179.12.170 (talk) 18:57, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, the cited source clearly supports what is written in the article and this issue has already been thoroughly discussed, so please do not remove sourced content that has already been discussed.
Regards Kabz15 (talk)
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