Talk:Disjunct (linguistics)
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I'm looking at this page and wondering if indeed it should relate it to Linguistic modality LaFolleCycliste 19:07, 30 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LaFolleCycliste (talk • contribs)
What is this word?
[edit]Where does this term come from? I've looked in various dictionaries and it isn't there meaning what it purports to mean here. All the examples are sentence adverbs - so why isn't the article called that? There should be examples that are not sentence adverbials. I have looked at some of the references and they do not use the word 'disjunct'. I have found it in other sources, but the article should explain what it is and where it comes from. Myrvin (talk) 21:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
"adverb"
[edit]The article tells us:
- A specific type of disjunct is the sentence adverb (or sentence adverbial). . . .
- Here are some examples (note: the disjuncts that follow are 'sentence adverbs'): . . .
- In my opinion, the green one is better.
Regardless of its function, the category of "in my opinion" is preposition phrase. It's not an adverb phrase, let alone an adverb.
Andrevan (who added this notion back in 2007), according to which reference grammar is "adverb" (or "sentence adverb") a term for a function, and not only for a category? -- Hoary (talk) 02:27, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- I don't really understand the question. The edit you're referencing was over 10 years ago, and it clearly has a reference to McArthur, Tom. The Oxford Companion to the English Language, pp. 16-17. regarding the concept of "sentence adverbs," like in "Hopefully, it will not rain tomorrow." In that sentence, "hopefully" refers to the speaker or to the entire mood of the sentence, rather than the verb "to rain." Andrevan@ 06:29, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you for the reply, Andrevan. In my opinion, "adverbial" is an unfortunate term; but I recognize that it's widely used and makes sense in its way, so I'm not arguing about it. I'm asking about "adverb". I have McArthur's book and looked within. You've pointed me to a long article about adverbials, not adverbs; but specifically, to the use of words such as "hopefully" (which anybody moderately informed about any non-fringe grammatical system would agree fell in the category of adverb) as a disjunct, one kind of adverbial. Adverbial use of this adverb: "Hopefully it will stop raining soon." (Non-adverbial, and slightly unidiomatic use of the same adverb: "He asked his aunt hopefully for a loan.") Now, regardless of how it's used, the category of "in my opinion" is preposition phrase, is it not? It can be used adverbially: "In my opinion, the green one is better." (And, at least with a slight tweak, it can be used non-adverbially: "Inconsistency in my opinions isn't something I need to apologize for.") McArthur seems pretty clear on the distinction between (A) categories (aka "parts of speech": adverb, preposition phrase, etc) and (B) function (disjunct, etc). He does indeed say that sentence adverbials are sometimes called "sentence adverbs", but he doesn't proceed to use the latter misnomer. And his examples of "adverbs" are adverbs. -- Hoary (talk) 01:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- I think the key is the last sentence of your reply. McArthur says they are sometimes called "sentence adverbs." You can say it's a misnomer, but it makes sense to me: "hopefully" when used as an adverbial disjunct, not technically an adverb, is called a "sentence adverb," an analogy to the way adverbs work. Andrevan@ 02:26, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- This is getting weird. First, McArthur shows no enthusiasm for calling anything a "sentence adverb"; he just notes that some people call them that. Meanwhile, our article talks of "sentence adverbs", only parenthetically adding that they're called sentence adverbials. Secondly, it's strange to say that anything is (or isn't) used as an adverb (because adverb is a category, not a function). Thirdly, "hopefully" is an adverb, however/wherever it's used. ¶ Suggestion: I revise this article. Revising it for me, and viewing the revision for you, will be less tedious than describing a revision for me, and following this description for you. You would of course be free to disagree/revert after my (fairly mild) changes. How about it? -- Hoary (talk) 02:41, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- You can always edit the article, you don't need my permission. I didn't even write most of the current version of the article. The content I added in 2007 looks like it ended up at the hopefully article. That being said, to edit the article to reflect your own understanding of grammar or linguistics might fall under the Wikipedia policy which prevents original research from being included in an article -- our job is simply to summarize, not synthesize, the source material. My reading here is that some people use the term "sentence adverb" interchangeably with "disjunct" in the context of words like "unfortunately" or "hopefully." You will note that the revision of the page that I worked on did not claim that "in my opinion" was a sentence adverb. Andrevan@ 04:42, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
- This is getting weird. First, McArthur shows no enthusiasm for calling anything a "sentence adverb"; he just notes that some people call them that. Meanwhile, our article talks of "sentence adverbs", only parenthetically adding that they're called sentence adverbials. Secondly, it's strange to say that anything is (or isn't) used as an adverb (because adverb is a category, not a function). Thirdly, "hopefully" is an adverb, however/wherever it's used. ¶ Suggestion: I revise this article. Revising it for me, and viewing the revision for you, will be less tedious than describing a revision for me, and following this description for you. You would of course be free to disagree/revert after my (fairly mild) changes. How about it? -- Hoary (talk) 02:41, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- I think the key is the last sentence of your reply. McArthur says they are sometimes called "sentence adverbs." You can say it's a misnomer, but it makes sense to me: "hopefully" when used as an adverbial disjunct, not technically an adverb, is called a "sentence adverb," an analogy to the way adverbs work. Andrevan@ 02:26, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you for the reply, Andrevan. In my opinion, "adverbial" is an unfortunate term; but I recognize that it's widely used and makes sense in its way, so I'm not arguing about it. I'm asking about "adverb". I have McArthur's book and looked within. You've pointed me to a long article about adverbials, not adverbs; but specifically, to the use of words such as "hopefully" (which anybody moderately informed about any non-fringe grammatical system would agree fell in the category of adverb) as a disjunct, one kind of adverbial. Adverbial use of this adverb: "Hopefully it will stop raining soon." (Non-adverbial, and slightly unidiomatic use of the same adverb: "He asked his aunt hopefully for a loan.") Now, regardless of how it's used, the category of "in my opinion" is preposition phrase, is it not? It can be used adverbially: "In my opinion, the green one is better." (And, at least with a slight tweak, it can be used non-adverbially: "Inconsistency in my opinions isn't something I need to apologize for.") McArthur seems pretty clear on the distinction between (A) categories (aka "parts of speech": adverb, preposition phrase, etc) and (B) function (disjunct, etc). He does indeed say that sentence adverbials are sometimes called "sentence adverbs", but he doesn't proceed to use the latter misnomer. And his examples of "adverbs" are adverbs. -- Hoary (talk) 01:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
To convey the mood, attitude or sentiments of the speaker
[edit]Sentence adverbs form a completely standard aspect of English grammar, but there are a few, for example, hopefully, that give rise to widespread criticism as they express the user's attitude to the sentence content rather than modify the sentence as a whole. Others that may incur criticism in the same way are mercifully, thankfully, and truthfully. In formal contexts, writers are advised to avoid all these and simply recast their sentences accordingly ( https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=hopefully). --Backinstadiums (talk) 19:57, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
- Regretfully vs regrettably should also be mentioned --Backinstadiums (talk) 10:29, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Opinion is far from universal on these. Also, there are curious exceptions. Nobody seems to object to "frankly" or "confidentially." In any case, it's time these people learned that they do not own the language. Kostaki mou (talk) 18:59, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Kostaki mou: we routinely use a host of other sentence adverbs without raising an eyebrow, for instance confidentially, fortunately, frankly, happily, interestingly, sadly, seriously, surprisingly, unhappily, etc:
- Opinion is far from universal on these. Also, there are curious exceptions. Nobody seems to object to "frankly" or "confidentially." In any case, it's time these people learned that they do not own the language. Kostaki mou (talk) 18:59, 15 June 2021 (UTC)