Talk:Dilawar (torture victim)

This article was nominated for deletion on July 31, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

United States Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Afghanistan

	Afghanistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Human rights

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Photographs

A couple of photographs, at least, exist of Dilwar. I don't know the copyright position on either of them, but is there any possibility of using these photographs in this article as this poor man deserves to be remembered by more than a sketch of his torture? abdullahazzam 13:15pm GMT 07/06/07

NPOV

The use of the pejorative "torture" to refer to the enhanced interrogation is practically a weasel word. Also, all the sources are extremely left-wing. The clear bias of this article necessitates a frank discussion about its neutrality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.104.129 (talk) 07:23, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I know what you mean dude. Beating a chained-up prisoner's lower extremities to a gooey pulp is really no worse than a fraternity hazing. And obviously biased anti-American libtard sources like the Army pathologist don't belong in Wikipedia - we should stick to reputable sources like Free Republic. Sigh. <eleland/talkedits> 06:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, "enhanced interrogation," a euphemism, is what would be weasel words. Torture is the correct term. —DavidConrad (talk) 20:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another NPOV possibility is the quote about the legs being pulped. I'm no expert, but the only reference I saw was to the online review of a documentary. The review was published in a socialist publication with an obvious biased POV. No other mention of the pulping or needing to be amputated are popping up... Perhaps a better source would be good, or removal until a better source is found? 130.76.96.155 (talk) 20:11, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced tag

I added the {{Unsourced section}} tag to the 'Torture' section. I also removed the one reference in that section as it did not verify any of the statements in the section, rather just gave a further definition of the detainee's injuries which was also wikilinked. Please don't remove the tag without providing references for the statements in the section, and ideally discussing them here on talk as well. Thanks! Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 19:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Documentary

According to the documentary Taxi to the Dark Side (it was on TV last night), shortly after Dilawars arrest, the soldiers who detained him were arrested for being responsible for the rocket attack themselves and then using the arrest of innocent Afghans as a ploy to gain favour. Despite this Dilawar was still sent to Baghram. Why is this not mentioned in the article? It is certainly significant. Wayne (talk) 11:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's OK. It is mentioned:

"In February, an American military official disclosed that the Afghan guerrilla commander whose men had arrested Mr. Dilawar and his passengers had himself been detained. The commander, Jan Baz Khan, was suspected of attacking Camp Salerno himself and then turning over innocent "suspects" to the Americans in a ploy to win their trust, the military official said.

Nbauman (talk) 00:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So it is. I missed it because it is buried in the quote from the NYT. The arrest section should really be replaced by a more encyclopaedic entry with the NYT as a ref as such a long quote is hard to read. Wayne (talk) 02:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

uncollapsing templates as per [1]

Another contributor decided to over-ride the default state for the navigation templates on dozens of articles, and "collapse" them, by hand. They didn't provide any explanation for these edits at the time. But later, they claimed the templates were "too long" and lapsed from compliance with NPOV.

Not being an expert in navigation templates, I checked, at Wikipedia_talk:Navigation_templates#When should navigation templates be collapsed?, and reported back to the talk page where the controversy was first discussed. It seems the only contributor not willing to leave navigation templates in their default state was the contributor who collapsed all the templates in the first place.

FWIW, I have made several requests to this contributor to explain their NPOV concern -- so far no joy. Geo Swan (talk) 14:00, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

torture victim in the title?

Again, having an article with "torture victim" in the title is against WP:NPOV and WP:BLP. This is EXTREME POV pushing. V7-sport (talk) 01:05, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dilawar not a torture victim? You must be either not able to read and understand the sources or you are the one who is "EXTREME POV pushing" IQinn (talk) 01:08, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"torture victim" is a WP:LABEL and is unsuitable for a WP:TITLE per Wikipedia:NPOV. V7-sport (talk) 01:17, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

""torture victim" is a WP:LABEL" Could not be more false. How?

"unsuitable for a WP:TITLE per Wikipedia:NPOV" Unexplained pointing to policies without explaining how they are violated is by best a waste of time and possible WP:GAME. IQinn (talk) 01:21, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Torture" is a contentious label and needs to be attributed to whomever is saying it. It's obviously not suitable for an ARTICLE TITLE. V7-sport (talk) 02:06, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Questions

I improved the article but got reverted two times without an explanation what was wrong with the improvements. Please do explain what was wrong with it otherwise i am going to change it back to the from me suggested form. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.217.236.61 (talk) 04:46, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I already replied to you on your talk about this question. But I repeat my reply here: "You took out a NY Times citation and portions of text. This is a radical change. Please explain your actions on talk". So here we are. Please explain your actions as I described them in my edit summary, your talk page and now here. Please also note that we have a 3 revert policy, also abbreviated as WP:3RR. Editors are not allowed to revert more than 3 times in a 24 hour period. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 04:54, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As explained on my talk page i took the ref out accidentally and re-added it in the next edit. That is no reason for your revert. Please read the new proposed text and tell me what is wrong with it. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.217.236.61 (talk) 05:00, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In fact you did not add it back as you claim. You left it out. You also took out portions of the text. Please justify why. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 05:07, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In fact you also removed another citation by the National Catholic reporter. Please explain this also. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 05:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Before i performed my changes the lede had one ref: (by Bender235 at 18:19, 3 November 2011.) "Townsend, David (August 12, 2005). "The Passion of Dilawar of Yakubi". natcath.org. Retrieved 2011-04-21."

After my changes in the last version that you reverted the lede had one ref (the same): ( by 41.217.236.61 at 04:08, 15 November 2011.) "Townsend, David (August 12, 2005). "The Passion of Dilawar of Yakubi". natcath.org. Retrieved 2011-04-21."

I compared these versions very carefully so i am sorry to say your statement seems to be false. You might please check again and come back to me with the result.

For the removal of the text i am sorry i do not know what part you mean. I added additional information and links and edited the text accordingly to make it coherent. A lot was added and some words are lost to make it coherent. Please do explicitly point out what information you think got lost.

For the removal of the link from the see also section: The section is overcrowded so i removed this link as it is used as a reference in the article, so it is redundant.

(i just created this user account and found out about the ~..) EditingDilawar (talk) 05:49, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why does this page not include the names (and current locations) of Dilawar's captures and interrogators? These details are pertinent to accurate reporting of the case and the conduction of appropriate response actions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.177.220 (talk) 04:54, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since you seem to not know what text and reference you removed, I will link to them and paste them here. Your edits keep removing the following section (text and reference): Dilawar's death has been compared to the [[crucifixion of Jesus|crucifixion]] of [[Jesus|Jesus of Nazareth]].<ref name=Townsend>{{cite web |url=http://natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2005c/081205/081205z.htm |title=The Passion of Dilawar of Yakubi |date=August 12, 2005 |first=David |last=Townsend |publisher=natcath.org |accessdate=2011-04-21}}</ref> As you can see this removes text, which you did not replace in your subsequent edits, and seemingly the reference by Townsend, even though it still exists in the article. I had not checked for the reference by Townsend if it remained in the article after your edit but somehow it did, thereby the discrepancy of my claim that you removed it but somehow the same reference remaining in the article. Anyway, since I have now showed you the text that you removed you can now correct your edits accordingly. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 09:44, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Dilawar (torture victim). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061001015147/http://www.cjr.org/issues/2006/5/Umansky.asp to http://www.cjr.org/issues/2006/5/Umansky.asp

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:48, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Dilawar (torture victim). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:20, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]