Talk:Defeater (band)

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genre in lead

Second Skin, by definition, since melodic hardcore is a subgenre of hardcore punk, a melodic hardcore band is always also a hardcore band. Here, using that is preferable since post-hardcore and emo are also descended from hardcore, but have no direct relation to melodic hardcore. I don't think it would be hard to find a source calling Defeater simply a hardcore band, but I don't see why that would be necessary.--MASHAUNIX 14:01, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Why is calling them melodic hardcore such a big deal? It's literally exactly what they sound like. These guys are more similar to stuff like Being as an Ocean. Saying they're a hardcore band implies that they sound like Cruel Hand or Trapped Under Ice (and they dont). Second Skin (talk) 01:38, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Because some sources don't consider them a melodic hardcore band but a post-hardcore/emo band... using melodic hardcore in the lead does not do this justice. Lead genres should be general categories; most bands are noted simply as "rock" bands and that doesn't mean their sound has to be similar to that of the Rolling Stones or Queen, merely that they can be placed in the same tradition.--MASHAUNIX 11:08, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

In that case, it's better to have them introduced as a rock band. I mean not only because introducing them as a "hardcore band" is misleading, but also because one of their genres, emo, isn't exactly a hardcore genre (American Football, Sunny Day Real Estate, Thuraday, Mineral ect are obviously not hardcore bands). Second Skin (talk) 07:23, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Well emo has no clearly defined sound and can take the form of different genres in different context. It emerged as a style of post-hardcore and some writers still consider it to primarily be that... that would be the type of emo associated with Defeater (hardcore/post-hardcore with emotional lyrics, guitar melodies and vocal delivery), even though they exhibit some influence from developments of emo within indie rock. Either way, here's a source calling Defeater a hardcore band if you want some evidence that it is not "misleading" to consider them that.--MASHAUNIX 10:26, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

In that case, why is "Defeater is a rock band" a problem? "Hardocre" is just such a specific sound, I still don't feel like it's right at all introducing the band like that. Second Skin (talk) 23:43, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Hardcore is the root genre from which their sound arises. Nowadays the term is used very broadly and can refer to artists playing a variety of sub/fusion/derivative styles as diverse as powerviolence, crust, sludge, screamo etc. Defeater's sound is much closer to "conventional" hardcore than that of many bands who would be called the same. Calling them a rock band would be fine too (as with any punk/metal band I guess), but it's more general than seems necessary.--MASHAUNIX 13:13, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I just don't think that they sound like a hardcore band at all, and "rock band" would be more fitting since they have emo to their sound as well on top of that. Second Skin (talk) 01:37, 6 January 2017 (UTC)