Talk:Deborah Voigt

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A fact from Deborah Voigt appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 June 2009 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that soprano Deborah Voigt lost over 100 pounds (45 kg) by means of gastric bypass surgery after she was fired in the "Covent Garden incident"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2009/June.

Wikipedia

Name

How do Americans pronounce this German name? I gather that it's completely "wrong" from a German point of view (which would mean something like "faukt", but it is rather something like "void"). Some American pronunciation help in the article would be greatly appreciated, though. --AndreasPraefcke (talk) 17:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it is more like void, voi-t. Bearian (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Class

I've upper this to Start-class. I believe the Opera project does not use C, and it doesn't seem to have quite come together enough for B yet, so start seems about right. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 23:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Balance? Too much about DV's obesity?

IMO this article gives too much prominence to DV's problems with obesity. I think it would be preferable to focus more on her career. What do other editors think? There seems to be a tendency for artists who have attracted popular mainstream media attention in America to get this kind of treatment, but I don't think it reflects well on WP. I'm not suggesting this material should be removed - just that it shouldn't appear in the lead and dominate the TOC. --Klein zach 23:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with your point on the obesity. Her career in 1990s and her roles in Strauss's opera are almost missing, but if we want a balance, we have to keep inserting contents.--Caspian blue 05:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do as well. Does this article we really need such detailed description of how gastric bypass surgery works, previous fat opera singers, and opinions about whether opera casting should take into account a singer's appearance? Not to mention the "little black dress" incident. In some ways I can understand the temptation because the coverage of it is easy to find. But, it's all from sources who basically didn't know what they were talking about, had not seen the original production or even pictures of it, and based their articles on what Voigt and her management told them in numerous interviews and press releases in 2004.

I actually saw the 2002 premiere of the ROH Ariadne production with Petra Lang in the title role and the revival when Schwillems replaced Voigt. The costume isn't and never was the strappy "little black dress" that people envision when they see the term. It was floor length, with a high neckline and long sleeves, see Petra Lang in the costume. Note also, that Voight had only been contracted for the revival (and 5 years in advance), before the costumes and the production had been designed and performed (to great praise) in 2002 – something the article doesn't make clear. It is also wrong to say that Ariadne is usually performed in period costumes. European productions have used modern dress (or some form of it) for years. Loy's production was not particularly unusual at the time. Secondly, she was not fired at the last minute, which is again implied although not stated in the article, nor did she wait "a few months" before saying anything. Schwillems appeared on the public advance schedules for the revival from the outset, many months before the actual performance and was actually engaged by the ROH in 2002 as a replacement for Voigt. See [1] Thirdly, Anne Schwanewilms may have been "a little known German singer" to CBS news (hardly an authority on opera), but when she was engaged by the ROH, she was quite well known in Europe and highly praised for her Strauss roles and similar repertoire. Editors working on this article might want to read these: [2], [3], [4]. But frankly, I'd prune the whole discussion way down.

Here are some suggestions for improvement... The weight ~~issue~~ saga (even if it were neutrally presented, which it's not at the moment) takes up reams of space which should be devoted to information about her career as opposed to her figure or her future plans (both of which make the artcle look a bit like a fan site). It needs her house debuts with the date and role sung, her repertoire and role debuts, critical reception both positive and negative). What about her musical training and studies? They are given very scanty coverage and a lot of it is about her high school. She has been singing in major roles since 1991 and has a distinguished discography, which is very scantily covered. She's a regular singer at the Met and her performance record there is available in detail on their database.[5]. This early article may also help with filling out the article [6] and there are quite a lot of other ones available in the Opera News archives: [7]

Another point, this link to a blog [8] is inappropriate as a reference, and also violates copyright by displaying the photos. Also, the link to a fanclub on facebook is probably inappropriate per WP:EL. Voceditenore (talk) 08:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I stumbled upon here by Bearian's DYK nomination, and the article still needs 4000 characters for that. I don't think Bearian would be happy about any deletion at this time although I agree with the excessive emphasis on her weight and the incident are frowning and violates NPOV. The intro has to be modified into a neutral tone. I recommend you to add some information, so the article could be balanced a bit.--Caspian blue 13:51, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I tagged the obesity section with {{POV-section}} since the concern here is too grave, but anyone who does not agree with me can revert it any time.--Caspian blue 19:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How about removing the sentence "When Voigt was replaced by another singer for the role as Ariadne at Covent Garden in 2004, her weight became a heated issue in popular media." altogether from the lead? --Klein zach 05:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do not mind about the removal. The modified sentence was just to mitigate the previous sentence's shocking effect in the intro.--Caspian blue 05:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good, how about also changing the heading "The "Covent Garden incident"" to something neutral like 'Ariadne, London 2004'? --Klein zach 06:05, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do think that your suggestion sounds good. However, as you can see, I'm not a native English speaker, so I'm reluctant to paraphrase sentences written by English speakers unless those are extremely fallacious. But I will modify the title right now. --Caspian blue 06:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Let me know any time you want a native English speaker check. --Klein zach 06:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One minor point, I think the link to Signy for Sieglinde will be rather confusing for readers. I think it would be better to take this out. --Klein zach 23:39, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Got it, now finally I made the article eligible for DYK (except the matter regarding her obesity). Could you check my grammar? Thanks.--Caspian blue 00:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a go but it's still not great. In particular I think the connection between 'It ain't over til the fat lady sings' and Wagner is nonsense and the whole section needs cutting. --Klein zach 01:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the proofreading but I still think my writing should be trimmed more. As for the obesity section, I'm gonna downsize it to half if I can add 3000 characters more to the article. I don't think the whole section should be out since the case was very notable. I became to acknowledge her with the incident because I did not listen Strauss and Wagner's music until then. Ben Harpner's weight is also comparable Then, the section can be balanced and go closer to neutral, I hope.--Caspian blue 01:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I trimmed off 1700 characters from the section (more than 1/3), but it still need to be tighten up and I need to be busy adding that amount of information.-_-;; --Caspian blue 04:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, folks, for the editing help and proof-reading. Bearian (talk) 12:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC) P.S. The resulting product is, perhaps unintentionally, very funny. Bearian (talk) 12:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

May I ask you why you think the current article looks funny to you? We've been discussing "serious issues".--Caspian blue 14:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CaspianBlue, many of your comments on this talk page are English idioms for losing weight - "trimming down," "tighten up," "cut" and the like. Bearian (talk) 17:40, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I see. I said "downsizing", "balancing" too. :-) -Caspian blue 17:47, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm so glad you have a sense of humor! LOL. Bearian (talk) 17:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

DYK is pretty funny itself — in a retro kind of way! --Klein zach 23:51, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article is looking good, so I am signing off. Let me know if you want me to come back and look at anything. Best. --Klein zach 06:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Time inconsistency

So she was born in 1960, married at age 30, and divorced in 1995 after 7 years of marriage? Something's wrong here. Ntsimp (talk) 12:50, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe there is a possibility that the singer deducts her age to look younger, or the writer wrote incorrect information. I'm gonna send email to the writer.--Caspian blue

Why no picture?

Why is there no picture of her? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.21.65.42 (talk) 14:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Twilight indeed

On Voigt's Brünnhilde in the Met's 2013 Ring conclusion, Götterdämmerung:

Hoelterhoff, Manuela (6 May 2013). "Voigt Shrieks But Lepage's Ring Should Survive: Review". Bloomberg Businessweek. ... stressful high notes, pitch lapses and hard timbre so devoid of luster and emotional depth

-- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Update?

This article needs some updating, in particular in the section '2009 to 2010'. We find a couple instances of 'was set to sing' and one of 'will accompany'. Did those things happen or not? Perhaps the verb forms should be amended accordingly.HenryLarsen (talk) 10:43, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]