Talk:Deaths in October 2022

Dame Angela Lansbury is missing Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Beauty and the Beast 1991 credits.

To the wikipedia users for deaths 2022 article section. I'm sorry about Angela Lansburys death, I understand it was her time to pass on to the next life, she lived a good life and is now home in heaven.

Anyways when you put the films, she was in including The Manchurian Candidate, Sweeney Todd. I have no idea what those 2 films are that Angela was in since they are very unfamiliar to me, and I've never heard of them. I do know that TV show Murder she Wrote and the Broadway play Mame.

So why haven't you credited her with 2 best known Disney films Bedknobs and Broomsticks 1971 and Beauty and the Beast 1991. Those are the most well-known popular roles Angela Lansbury was in. If possible, can we include Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Beauty and the Beast 1991 for her death credits which most Disney fans know her for, because it's more well-known than 2 obscure films The Manchurian Candidate, Sweeney Todd which I've never heard of before and I may not get to see in my lifetime since they are obscure and unknown to me.

Please explain what's going on and why Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Beauty and the Beast was left out of her death date certificate. Because those 2 Disney musicals are more famous than, The Manchurian Candidate, Sweeney Todd which is the first time I've heard about them. CrosswalkX (talk) 01:59, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

By Wikipedia policy, we can only list three credits. Just because you only now just heard of Manchurian Candidate and Sweeney Todd doesn't mean she wasn't notable for them (she was).$chnauzer 02:17, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

It's just that I know her really well for Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Beauty and the Beast 1991. This was the first time I've heard of Manchurian Candidate and Sweeney Todd because. I grew up in the 1980s, 1990s watching Disney movies and I still watch Disney movies.

So since the limit is 3 credits. Can we possibly consider switching out Manchurian Candidate and Sweeney Todd with Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Beauty and the Beast 1991 or is that not possible? Otherwise, I'll just leave it at that.

I'm still really surprised, confused and baffled that the Wikipedia user would choose Manchurian Candidate and Sweeney Todd for Angela Lansbury death credits which most people today don't know over the popular Bedknobs and Broomsticks 1971 and Beauty and the Beast 1991 Disney films that most people still know her for that Angela Lansbury was in. Let me know if they'll switch out the credits in the death credits or if it's set in place. CrosswalkX (talk) 13:22, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the credits accurately reflect her most notable work over her lifetime, and not just your lifetime or any one person's lifetime. I think you have to look at the bigger picture, regardless of your personal perceptions. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:04, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @CrosswalkX:. I'm the editor who chose Sweeney Todd as the third credit, and I'd like to give you a bit of context for why I selected them. First off, Refsworldlee is correct: There is a maximum of three credits for an individual who needs them (Usually entertainers, but also athletes, radio disk jockeys, wrestlers and so on). The credits that have been selected for Lansbury do two things: They range the breadth of her career and there's one each for the three mediums she worked in: Theater, television and motion pictures. For television, Murder, She Wrote was an obvious selection that I don't think I need to explain. For films, she was in many of those, and The Manchurian Candidate was selected by another editor. I kept it in place, instead of switching it out with Beauty and the Beast, because she received an Oscar nomination for Manchurian (her third of three nominations) and because the lead of her article described it as "frequently cited as one of her best performances during her career". Usually with credits for film actors, editors of this page often lean towards choosing films for which that actor won or was nominated for an Oscar. Lansbury also had a long career in theater and she won five Tonys during career. That part of her career had to be one of the three credits because she received the most, and most prestigious, awards in her lifetime for stage acting. But what to pick? I went between two different plays she won the Tony for - Mame for which she originated the lead role and won her first Tony, and Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street, for which she originated the second main role. I went with Sweeney Todd as it seems to be the better known production, as it won the Best Musical Tony in addition to Lansbury's Best Actress win. But also, one of the things that made me go with Sweeney Todd is that unlike Mame, Lansbury toured with the first U.S. touring production of the musical shortly after the play closed on Broadway. That's the reasoning behind all that. Refsworldlee is also correct that the selections "Accurately reflect her most notable work over her lifetime, and not just your lifetime or any one person's lifetime". Maybe you, personally, are unfamiliar with The Manchurian Candidate or Sweeney Todd, but that's not necessarily the case with everyone. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 19:10, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I unfortunately am unfamiliar with Sweeney Todd, and The Manchurian Candidate because nobody in my family has ever told me about those 2 movies. By the way I do watch old movies because I have a mom and dad and my sisters who watches old movies from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and so on and I watch them because they watch it on Turner Classic Movies on TV. When I get a chance maybe I'll look it up on youtube or Amazon video.

I'm sad that she didn't get credit for Bedknobs and Broomsticks 1971 and Beauty and the Beast 1991 or even The Court Jester 1954 in the death 2022 page because that's what Angela Lansbury is best known for, and I remember her most for those 2 Disney movies and The Court Jester 1954 which I watch over and over even on Disney Plus. Besides that, I'm not Lenord Maltin which I try to be sometimes. It's too overwhelming for me to watch every movie or TV show ever made in this life and there's many others that I may not like which I won't watch. Anyways I'll let this discussion go. CrosswalkX (talk) 13:21, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Ok, but Sweeney Todd, at least the version Lansbury was in, is a Broadway musical and not a film. Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 15:27, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

And while I missed her by a few months myself (the fine Diana Rigg played Madame Armfeldt when I caught the production) "From December 2009 to June 2010, Lansbury then starred as Madame Armfeldt alongside Catherine Zeta-Jones in the first Broadway revival of Stephen Sondheim's A Little Night Music, held at the Walter Kerr Theatre. The role earned her a seventh Tony Award nomination" ELSchissel (talk) 22:20, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

To Doc Strange. I have looked up The Manchurian Candidate trailer on Youtube and I personally find it a creepy film that made me uncomfortable, I liked her better in Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Auntie Mame and Beauty and the Beast 1991.

Angela Lansbury memorial Death page needs to be challenged because it's missing Beauty and the Beast 1991 or Bedknobs and Broomsticks and I think it's disrespectful that we would snub Angela Lansbury from Beauty and the Beast 1991. I don't really like the 3 credit limit policy for deaths page especially for people like Angela Lansbury. Angela Lansbury deserves better respect for the most famous work. Besides that, why would do that to Angela Lansbury?

I'm not happy that you chosen The Manchurian Candidate 1962 a film over Beauty and the Beast 1991 and made me feel very sad that she wouldn't get credit for the greatest Disney movies ever made Beauty and the Beast 1991 or Bedknobs and Broomsticks 1971, or Marry Poppins Returns 2018.

We need to either swap out The Manchurian Candidate for Beauty and the Beast or Bedknobs and Broomsticks or else ask the Wikipedia staff members to make an exception for Angela Lansbury to extend it to 4 to 5 credits. I'm want Angela Lansbury to get better honor and respect for her hard work.

Please don't exclude her from Beauty and the Beast 1991, that's my all time favorite movie and it hurts me very much that Angela Lansbury would get snubbed from having Beauty and the Beast 1991 excluded from her Death memorial wikipedia page and it feels like a slap in my face that Beauty and the Beast 1991 is not included. Please at least include Beauty and the Beast 1991 film. I'd rather see Beauty and the Beast instead of The Manchurian Candidate. Besides that if people on wikipedia want to look up The Manchurian Candidate they can just go to Angela Lansbury wikipedia page.

Please include Beauty and the Beast 1991 and get the staff to at least extend it to 4 credits on Angela Lansbury. I don't like it that Angela Lansbury is not credited in Beauty and the Beast 1991. I want her honored for Beauty and the Beast 1991. CrosswalkX (talk) 13:25, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

@CrosswalkX: you need to let this go, as you said you would above. Firstly, we try to list a notable credit from each actor's mediums (stage, screen, television), if applicable. Three total. We cannot adjust an entry to accommodate their apparent biggest fan. I myself also love everything Lansbury did, but, if you look on her page, her role in Candidate was her breakout role (it has an entire paragraph of critical acclaim); Beast and Broomsticks does not. In fact, the title song from Beast won all kinds of awards, but not because of her performance of it. As a wikignome and regular contributor to this list, I suggest you walk away. Her article is linked here, her death was mentioned on the main Wikipedia page, and we all need to move on. In three weeks, October (and this discussion) will be relegated the monthly death page, anyway. Wyliepedia @ 20:10, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

She was a decent comic relief in Blue Hawaii, and played one of they key supporting characters in The Company of Wolves. Which are both personal favorites for me. But we can not list her entire filmography. Dimadick (talk) 20:27, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Wow I haven't seen Blue Hawaii or Company of Wolves. I would be interested in watching those movies.

But anyways Dimadick. I personally think that Angela Lansbury's death memorial is flawed and unrecognizable. Here's my idea for her memorial page.

Dame Angela Lansbury, 96, British-American-Irish actress (Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Beauty and the Beast 1991, Murder, She Wrote) and singer, five-time Tony winner.

Can we ask the Wikipedia staff to at least include Beauty and the Beast. I would prefer that. CrosswalkX (talk) 12:40, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Okay I'll let this discussion go only if we can somehow get Beauty and the Beast 1991 film or Bedknobs and Broomsticks in Angela Lansbury memorial Deaths 2022. Otherwise, I think we need to at least add a forth credit Beauty and the Beast 1991 because Angela Lansbury is very special actress to me.

I only want to see her credited in a super famous academy award Disney movie Beauty and the Beast 1991 because that's my all time favorite Disney movie and I remember Angela Lansbury the most in Beauty and the Beast and so do people around me in Utah.

I'm sorry if I was rude earlier. I'm an autistic man adult and I grew up on Disney movies like Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Beauty and the Beast. Angela Lansbury was very special to me even though I never got to see her at FanX.

It's like what the Beatles say "We can work this out, life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends."

So please fix Angela Lansbury memorial page to include Beauty and the Beast 1991 and I'll be satisfied and let it go and move on. CrosswalkX (talk) 12:51, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not because YOU don't know a certain movie that a movie is not (more) notable. Angela Lansbury was nominated thrice in her career for an Oscar for supporting actress:Gaslighgt', The Picture of Dorian Gray, and The Manchurian Candidate. Of which the latter has become an iconic movie and was even remade in 2004. If any movie from the late Angela Lansbury's career should be mentioned it's The Manchurian Candidate. -- fdewaele, 18 October 2022, 15:10 CET.

Everybody on Wikipedia, I just finished watched The Manchurian Candidate 1962 on Amazon video. And the 1962 black and white movie, and the movie made me feel upset and very uncomfortable and gave me unhappy feelings due to the dark mature adult themes of murder and suicide and John F. Kenndy predicted 1963 assassination themes in the movie, and I don't want to watch it anymore. Now I know why I haven't heard of it and why my family never talked to me about it. Yes, I'm now aware she did win an award in The Manchurian Candidate 1962 but I don't want to see it anymore. I'd rather watch more uplifting musical films Bedknobs and Broomsticks 1971, Beauty and the Beast 1991, The Court Jester 1954, Marry Poppins Returns 2018 instead.

In the future can we please consider extending Angela Lansbury memorial page on October 11, 2022 to 5 credits rather than 3? I want to include Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Beauty and the Beast 1991 since those are 2 most iconic films she was in which I enjoy by the way.

I understand we cannot possibly include every other notable film she was in like The Court Jester, Nanny McPhee, Marry Poppins Returns, Blue Hawaii, Mame because it would clutter up the Deaths 2022 page. I'm still not personally happy that we put in 2 obscure films Manchurian Candidate, Sweeney Todd which I barely heard about over Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Beauty and the Beast 1991 and I think was a missed opportunity and I hope in the future we give can extend Angelea Lansbury page to 5 film credits rather than 3 credits for her memorial legacy. Anyways I'm now done and I'm going to let it go. CrosswalkX (talk) 12:40, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

I now think we should CLOSE comments in this thread, as further prevarication will not help, nor will it change the basic choice of three. Ref ^(chew)(do) 16:27, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Agreed - the endless repetition is getting tedious. Seemingly some people will not take 'no' for an answer. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 16:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Might be necessary to include something in the FAQ about what three credits get used or something, because there always seems to be disagreement over what gets used. Rusted AutoParts 16:52, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Therein lies the problem. We have never had any agreed criteria on what constitutes the "best" three credits for the deceased. This is especially true for the arts (film/television/music etc). The three chosen works often come down to the whim or determination of a particular editor. Looking at Lansbury's body of work, her most-awarded work was Blithe Spirit, with four awards (Tony, Drama Desk, Olivier, Critics Circle), yet it does not feature on "our" three credits. I live in hope that the wikignomes here will one day agree to objective criteria. Cheers, WWGB (talk) 03:54, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Jerry Lee Lewis COD cite

Looking for input here. @InternetEnigma: has made the assertion that the present source for Lewis, published by DeSoto Times-Tribune, isn't a valid source to use to cite his COD as "it's the only one citing a COD" and that it's "bit shady". I find zero reason to consider the source shady at all, it's the paper for the county that he lived in. In addition, being presently the lone source to cite a cause of death to me is not a valid reason to exclude it. Given it's a publication from his neck of the woods, they to me have a level of credence. Rusted AutoParts 05:36, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

It’s strange that when such a notable person dies, only one source carries a COD. Also, the source says “following a bout with pneumonia” which isn’t really the same as “died from pneumonia”. No harm in waiting till more sources report a COD. WWGB (talk) 06:02, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not shady at all, it's an established and properly run community newspaper, of good standing as far as I'm concerned. The fact that it's has a European block applied to it means that it has gone through some correct legal examination to do so (many US newspapers are running scared of EU privacy legislation which might affect them directly). However, the European access block means we shouldn't use it in the entry, though I correctly referred back to it by URL in an edit summary the other day, which is the way to go. I think the editor is trying to apply an agenda when using the word "shady". Ignore that insult if you would. I do agree that the tag "pneumonia" shouldn't be in the entry until better corroboration becomes available. (It doesn't help that I can't view past European access blocks myself.) Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:46, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Ngl @Ref i think that's pretty rude to imply my use of shady has some ulterior political agenda to it when I blatantly explained in my edits that my usage of the term was in reference to the fact that the site being linked to is an unsecured website I.E. it seems shady to me.

I don't believe the site should be used as a valid source for this information as it is the only news site reporting the COD as this as every other news publication is either reporting "Natural Causes" or "No COD Given" meaning the information given is likely too unreliable to be used. Seconding this belief is the sites usage of "following a bout of pneumonia" this terminology being used mixed with the linking of his Instagram post from nearly a week previous stating he had the Flu makes me believe that the COD listed is either speculative on their end based on a previously known condition or a misinterpretation of information with the site confusing the flu for pneumonia in a similar way to how numerous sites always use heart attacks and cardiac arrest interchangeably. The information presented just doesn't seem super reliable at this time and I think it would be best to wait for actual confirmation, if it ever comes, on the COD before we trust this singular source that doesn't even seem to pass the peer review test. InternetEnigma (talk) 23:46, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I get all that, I really do, and I support your view that "pneumonia" should not be included until a reliable source with wording confirming that exact outcome is available. I still say that calling out a reliable website with the term shady is not right, however you like to frame it, but I'll happily retract the suggestion that there is an agenda attached. Ref ^(chew)(do) 23:52, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

It was just kind of annoying me that something I said tangentially was being used as my actual argument when really my whole point is based on that this is the only place saying it and only stated it looked shady because it was an unsecured website without knowing much on it actual paper on the time but Rusted AutoParts keeps using it as if it was one of my main arguments this entire time. Also only the first part was directed at you the second section was meant to be a response to Rusted AutoParts' arguments so sorry if it came off as me just trying to attack you I probably should have framed it better. InternetEnigma (talk) 00:23, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Then why state you find it shady in your edit summary? I wasn't at all framing your argument solely about it's purported shadiness, I mentioned firstly that you found it was the only source saying this. Considering you included it in your summary, it came off as one of your reasons. Rusted AutoParts 02:05, 30 October 2022 (UTC)