Talk:Deaths in January 2020

Don Schufro

A Danish Dressage Horse that won the Olympic Bronze for Denmark in the 2008 Olympics, world cup and Danish championships, has passed at 27. Some of his sires have also won gold and silver at the Olympics as well as world and european championships. No article, so cant be listed yet. [1] if anyone would like to write an article so he can be listed. Sunnydoo (talk) 19:56, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Isn't that method called "the cart before the horse" in these pages? (Just a joke, don't mind me.) Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:05, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

I jest not, in wondering what deters SD from contributing from dashing off a stub. Not every editor "does windows" (e.g., I emulate Father William), but that isn't always enuf to keep me from occasionally beating a dead horse into shape)... so i don't necessarily rule out (metaphor) my own involvement.... --JerzyA (talk) 19:57, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Edd Byrnes

Probably just a typo, but Byrne's was 87, not 86, when he passed away. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 04:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Edd Byrnes was born in July 1933. It is only January 2020. He has not yet turned 87. He would have turned 87 in July 2020. When he died, he was still 86 years of age. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:9001:4016:C400:CD45:117E:A705:E0A1 (talk) 05:03, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2020

January 8 shows that Edd Byrnes died under recent deaths. His age shows 87. He was born in JULY of 1933. He died in JANUARY of 2020. He was 86 and would have turned 87 in 7 more months. 2603:9001:4016:C400:CD45:117E:A705:E0A1 (talk) 05:01, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 05:25, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Note that his birth year was changed in his article(from 1932 to 1933) just a few hours ago. The sources in his article that showed 1933 are all editable internet databases like IMDB and Discogs. That change has been reverted. --Marbe166 (talk) 07:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

FWIW, THR lists him at 87, and that’s what we go with here. — Wyliepedia @ 12:38, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

In combo, of course, with the age quoted in the latest edit version of his WP article. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:59, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

In fact (as mentioned on the article talk page), official birth records show that Byrne was born in 1932, not 1933, and was therefore 87 (not 86) when he died. But many (perhaps most) reliable sources give a 1933 birth - probably claimed by his publicist when he was much younger, and repeated ever since. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:29, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Tolkien

I suggest adding reference/link to his management/directorship of the Tolkien Estate/Tolkien Trust (this probably takes precedence over his editing). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.156 (talk) 10:57, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

I would agree with this. However, we have a few that will play the relative card on it. It has come up as an issue in the past especially in the rock n roll area like Roy Orbison's second wife Barbara. I will say to further this, one of the key areas that the foundation worked in was Online gaming. The Tolkien family as a whole held tight control over the mmorpg Lord of the Rings Online.Sunnydoo (talk) 20:14, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

I think the only objection to "relative" notability would be listing him as his father's son. There have been several family businesses allowed as links here, so his trust one shouldn't be any different. Same as if Priscilla Presley or Christie Hefner were to be entries here. Someone has to keep the lights on. — Wyliepedia @ 01:56, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Fallen Mexican Workers Union

I think combining two redlinks, indenting them and putting them on last gives undue weight to two people who (with respect) probably shouldn't have separate articles for their one unwitting event. I say list them alphabetically, like Egyptian actors we don't know, or delete both early. What say the panel? InedibleHulk (talk) 03:54, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Regardless of redness, that is how we always handle multiple fatalities from the same incident. Delete them now if you think they fail WP:NACTOR or wait 30 days as usual. WWGB (talk) 04:06, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Navarro Sanchez seems more likely to pass than the other guy. Not quite the gulf there was between Vic Morrow and his other two, but something slightly like that. Can we just remove the relative rookie's redlink, or would that seem cruel? InedibleHulk (talk) 05:06, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

 Removed. Neither were notable until they showed up to work that day. — Wyliepedia @ 08:49, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Sources for new additions

1. Victor Salvemini appears to have died but I am unable to access his obituary, which I can only partially view from a search. Possibly deleted link. [2][3]
2. Death of Bill Greenwood (reporter) has been tweeted by Brit Hume

Cheers, —Jonny Nixon (talk) 03:30, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

1. obituary appears to have been withdrawn (hence, death date should not even be in his WP article, as highly dubious that he is deceased at all);
2. has nothing in the way of reliable still, just a bloggish celebrity-stalking site reporting it.

Ref ^(chew)(do) 07:16, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm well aware, buddy, just mentioning it. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 09:19, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

And just trying to confirm there is no progress since your timestamp, or that I failed to find something myself too. We all join in the narrative at some point on Talk pages, that's what they are there for. Ditto all the above info as of this timestamp. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:29, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Understood. Here's another John Gibson (ice hockey, born 1959), and this tweet by an associated group. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 17:57, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:56, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Another one - the Charles Alverson article has been updated by three IPs. It's an odd coincidence with Terry Jones, if true.Cavrdg (talk) 15:20, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Is there a better source for the death of Charles Alverson? It's a foreign language, but you have to subscribe to read the article. Is there one out there that doesn't require a subscription? Snickers2686 (talk) 17:40, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

The only fresh one for Alverson is at http://mysteryfile.com/blog/?p=66169 - and as you can see by the URL it's a blog (not attached to a connected reliable source such as a newspaper or magazine) and so shouldn't be used. All the above have scant resources for their deaths as of my timestamp. Ref ^(chew)(do) 17:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Eugene Berger nationality

Eugene Berger is a Luxembourger.

"Luxembourgish" is a language.

Even Wikipedia's own entry on "Luxembourg" makes this distinction.

So, can Eugene Berger's nationality be corrected? 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 00:41, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. According to Luxembourgers, "the corresponding adjective is "Luxembourgish"". We use adjectives, not demonyms. WWGB (talk) 00:57, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, Wikipedia may need to either clarify that or change its policy. According to what is stated at the top of the "Deaths" page, "country of citizenship at birth", a "country" name is a noun/demonym, not an "adjective."

Also, nearly all demonyns can also be used as an adjective: He is an American. "American" is a noun. He is an American senator. "American" is an adjective.

And though the suffix "-ish" can change a noun/demonym to an adjective, it also has the more common use/meaning "about" or "around" or "mostly" or "I'm not sure of the specifics.": I'll be there at 6:00pm-ish. I suggest that to further avoid any confusion, the "-ish" suffix should not be used. Regarding this particular listing/person, I can't find anything wrong with just "Luxembourg politician". Thoughts/reactions. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 08:21, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

According to List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations, Luxembourg and Luxembourgish are both acceptable adjectives. If you want to replace Luxembourgish with Luxembourg then go right ahead. I doubt you will have any objectors. WWGB (talk) 10:39, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

@WWGB: IPs can't edit the page, remember? — Wyliepedia @ 01:07, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I know! Hence my (un)subtle prompt to become a registered editor. WWGB (talk) 01:12, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Pain, Justice

I believe Mr. Pain should come immediately before Mr. Payne, alphabetically. Fake name, but regular format. Not like Necro Butcher. That's basically a compound N-word. Abdullah the Butcher is A, but Butcher Vachon is V, see? Justin Credible is arguably J, but there's no pun in "Justice Pain" or "John Zandig". Just allusions. Can't paste, though, so it's up to you guys! Also, Kazuo Sakurada apparently died on the 11th, not the 12th. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:56, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

No, he is not Mr Pain, nor is Junkyard Dog sorted as Mr Dog. Justice Pain is sorted by the letter J. WWGB (talk) 12:05, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

JYD is different, he's an acronym. A dog of the junkyard, modifier and all. Check Pain's article, I'm not crazy, "justice" isn't an adjective like in Big Boss Man or Giant Silva or Shark Boy. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:11, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

If Junkyard Dog is a dog of the junkyard, then Justice Pain is the pain of justice. WWGB (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Even by CZW standards, that makes no sense. If he had a judge gimmick, sure. But it ain't like that. He's like Rusty Brooks or Dusty Wolfe or Dick Pole. Just named after things with other meanings. Look at Justice Smith. At least that sounds like a reasonable occupation. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:41, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

In the first place, as far as I can tell, Justice Smith is his real name unlike Justice Pain (so not a good example). If it's a "ring" name does it really matter what it's under. Maybe as a compromise, the source uses his real name first followed by AKA, so you could say Chris Wilson known as Justice Pain, for example. Then there's no argument about alphabetical order! As for Kazuo Sakurada, I'm happy to move to the 11th., if you tell me whether it goes before or after Fernanda Pires da Silva . . . not sure how Portuguese surnames work. I'm guessing after (P), but it could be before (S). Editrite! (talk) 00:57, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

We've always used the article name, so that compromise won't do. Alphabetical order matters the same regardless of how someone got the name. Bobby Kay is K, Rocky Johnson is J, Hercules Ayala is A. Pain is listed between Padamsee and Pandian in the 2020 deaths category, because his DEFAULTSORT is set as "Pain, Justice". This shouldn't be controversial. Pretty sure Pires da Silva is P, but I'll doublecheck. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:38, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Nope, S for Silva. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:40, 27 January 2020 (UTC) Thanks. Now moved. Editrite! (talk) 07:59, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Amazing Red is A, Bull Pain is B, Cincinnati Red is C, Disco Machine is D, E. Z. Money is E, Fuzzy Cupid is F etc. DEFAULTSORT is irrelevant, it's just the whim of a single editor. Yes, we sort by family name where one exists, but little Justice is not the child of Mr and Mrs Pain. WWGB (talk) 06:30, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Except for Bull Pain (maybe), all of those are descriptive phrases, somewhat conveying the gimmick. This guy is just like Mr. Wilson's other kid, Nick Gage. How do we list Trent Acid, Chri$ Ca$h and Axl Rotten? By surname, I'd bet. Justice pain is not a thing, nor is the Rod Baker an illegal finishing move. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:15, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I did it myself earlier, for the record. Hope we're cool. Bobby Fulton is F, right? InedibleHulk (talk) 06:07, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Gudrun Pausewang

Gudrun Pausewang was a writer for children, young adults and grown-ups, with a focus on literature for young adults on topics such as nuclear disaster and the Holocaust. To summarize that as children's author is too short. I promise to work on the linked articles, but it should be changed for those who don't link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:47, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I've tried a slight tweak to her entry (which I suspect may well get reverted) because personally I accept that she wrote for more than just under-age young people (or "children") - however, your apparent wish for a generally more wordy description will never do here. That's why we link to the person article, so that the more elaborate info on the subject can be accessed. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 15:54, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

What we did in the article was say "young adults". Otherwise just say writer, but no focus on children, please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I quote from her article: "children's and young adult literature". Who's focusing on children? It mentions children in her article, therefore we mention children in ours. But we don't. We only do innocent deaths entries here - and it now reads "German young person's author". It doesn't even mention children now! Is this some kind of paedophilia campaign - if so please tell us? Ref ^(chew)(do) 22:03, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Frankly, her entry here as "young person's author" just sounds frightfully awkward. Typically, if anyone has more than one focus in a particular career (i.e. an actor of stage, TV and film), we just simply list nationality and job, without specifics, and leave it up to the page visitor to do the click to see what sort. We're not behooved to clarify every damn focus an author has, no matter their primary or best-known one. Y'all can't even decide on how to put it in her article. — Wyliepedia @ 10:00, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

("persistent", "paedophilia" ...) There's nothing wrong with just writer. What I saw when coming here was children's writer, and that was wrong, imho, because it suggests "only" children's writer (cute animals, fairies ...), not books that teachers were advised to perhaps not let their students read alone. I'm working expanding her signature novel Die Wolke. You decide to mention that or not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Die Wolke was added to her entry days ago. — Wyliepedia @ 10:39, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Tom Alexander

The above is a redirect to the Scottish musical duo The Alexander Brothers and refers to the entry for Tom on January 9 2020. Because there is obvious extensive biographical detail, including dates of birth, sketched out for both brothers, the "no redirects" rule regarding 30 days' grace for redlinks should be overlooked on this occasion. It represents a valid bluelink for both sadly deceased siblings. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:23, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Agree. WWGB (talk) 01:12, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Do lists like this use simple citations with just a link?

According to User:WWGB, citations are simple on lists such as these. Does anyone have a policy guideline link that supports this statement? By the way, WWGB, the edit was explained in the edit summary of the next one. (I had accidentally pressed publish before I could explain the undo in the original edit summary) sam1370 (talk / contribs) 01:32, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Covered at the FAQ at Talk:Deaths in 2020. Rusted AutoParts 01:40, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@Sam1370: Rusted AutoParts 01:40, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

In particular, "Each month, over 500 deaths are reported. If the "cite news" template was used in each entry, the page would be slower to load as each instance of the template is rendered. Editors have decided by consensus to use a simpler cite in the form <ref>[url, title]</ref>" WWGB (talk) 01:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@Rusted AutoParts: + @WWGB: Thanks! sam1370 (talk / contribs) 02:40, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Eva Marks

Hello all. Just a word to say Eva Marks died January 27, 2020 -> [4]. I would have written it myself but I'm not sure what definition to give her in Deaths in January 2020. Thanks. --Danielvis08 (talk) 00:03, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

It's already listed. Editrite! (talk) 01:17, 8 October 2020 (UTC)