Talk:Cyberiada (opera)

	Poland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Germany Mid‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Opera

This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Opera, a group writing and editing Wikipedia articles on operas, opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project discussion page is a place to talk about issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!OperaWikipedia:WikiProject OperaTemplate:WikiProject OperaOpera articles

Classical music

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles

A fact from Cyberiada (opera) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 26 July 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Krzysztof Meyer's opera Cyberiada is based on a series of humorous science fiction stories by Stanislaw Lem?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cyberiada (opera).

Wikipedia

Translation questions

In the role table, "Volk der Gewindianer" was translated as "The Screwed Indians". This seems a little odd. I changed it to the "People of Gewindianer" pending some explanation for the "screwed Indians". Sometimes, it's better not to translate completely. In Lem's original story, the Gewindianer seem to be the subjects of King Voluptatus and there are two warring factions of them. See this. Also "Degeneräle" is translated as "de-generals", but there is no such English word as "de-general". Is "Degeneräle" perhaps an untranslatable German play on the words "degeneriert" (degenerate) and Generäle (Generals)? Voceditenore (talk) 16:10, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tricky to translate puns (German or not), consider them just as suggestions. "Gewindianer" plays with Gewinde (Screw thread) and Indianer (Indians), Degeneräle with Degeneration (Devolution (biology)? or Degeneration (medical)) and Generäle (Generals), - feel free. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:31, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda is correct in her explanation of the puns. E. g. the "Gewindians" come in two factions: the left-turning & the right-turning ones. Get it? The Polish & English title itself plays on cyber- and Siberia, although this has been lost in the German translation. The stories are full of these wordplay-names, a bit like in the Asterix & Obelisk stories.

Given that the 1st staged performance was in German, there is a case for listing the roles in German. However, that was a translated performance and now there's a Polish one, so maybe Polish should be used (difficult to do and not helpful for the reader). For the translation of role names, Michael Kandel's work could be used or leave them as they currently are, essentially untranslated. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just noticed: there's an English cast list at Sikoski's web site: http://media.sikorski.de/media/harmonia/w1001106_002.pdf (also in German). That should solve the problem. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:56, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for finding this, only: they didn't translate the funny names which add a lot of flavour to the whole thing, at least for me, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:34, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the end, I left the "Gewindinaner" untranslated, but explained who they were in the opera. For "Degeneräle", I used Degenerals (as used also in Michael Kandel's English translation of the original Lem story) and again explained who they were. I don't think we should get into speculating about the mechanism of the German puns in the article itself. Plus, in Polish some of the names are quite different. See here. For example, the German "König Voluptatus"... In the Polish version of the opera, he's "Król Rozporyk", and in Kandel's translation of the original stories, he is "King Zipperupus" (also used in this English review of the May 2013 Polish production). There's a lot of material on the Polish production, but alas almost all in Polish. I'm going to list it below, in case we get any editors who are fluent in speakers and might be able to use the material to expand parts of the article. Voceditenore (talk) 10:55, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thank you, the wanted flavour is there, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Polish-language resources for the May 2013 production

http://zwierciadlo.pl/2013/kultura/teatr/cyberiada-w-teatrze-polskim-w-poznaniu

http://www.opera.poznan.pl/page.php/1/0/show/3189/

http://www.culture.pl/multimedia-pelna-tresc/-/eo_event_asset_publisher/d6SF/content/cyberiada-w-teatrze-wielkim-w-poznaniu-%5Bfoto%5D

http://www.gloswielkopolski.pl/artykul/906242,nie-bojcie-sie-opery-wspolczesnej-recenzja-z-cyberiady,id,t.html

http://www.polityka.pl/kultura/teatr/1544285,1,recenzja-spektaklu-cyberiada-rez-ran-arthur-braun.read

Voceditenore (talk) 11:05, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will ask someone to have a look, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done Mostly OK. I put in a couple of them in. Poeticbent talk 18:23, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My pleasure. Poeticbent talk 23:05, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that's very helpful! I've removed the material about the music from the lede and put in the background section, just before the sentence about it winning the composition prize. The lede shouldn't really have stuff that isn't actually in the body of the article. I also removed an earlier citation from Janusensemble.free.fr (not added by me). It was a verbatim German translation of the copyright English biography of Meyer and descriptions of his works by his publisher Sikorski here. I have substituted this for the citation where the Janus Ensemble had been used. Note that this Sikorski source is OK for information about the premiere conductor, director, etc. However, it erroneously calls Sem's Cyberiad a "novel", an error corrected in their fuller description of the work itself here. This latter source is used for 2 other citations in the synopsis section. Voceditenore (talk) 08:15, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Cyberiada (opera). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:18, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]