Talk:Cullen House/Archive 1

Archive 1

Copy edit queries

• Could Charles McKean be properly introduced in both the lead and, especially, the main article.
• Similarly Walker and Woodworth.
• Is "Baronialized" a word? If so, is it spelt with a z in Scots English?
• Text: "On 16 March 1600, work was started on a large new house"; Infobox: "| start_date = 20 March 1600".

That's about all I could find. Please check the edits I have made. It looks more than ready for GAN to me. Caveat emptor and I am sure that the assessor will pick up lots of things I have missed. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Much appreciated Gog the Mild. Responses:

• Do you think adding 'architectural historian/s' is sufficient introduction, or do you think I should give a little bit more (e.g. Charles McKean, formerly professor of Architectural History at the University of Dundee...)?

Your choice. How you have it is fine. (When I see unintroduced names I mentally insert "Who is a bloke I met down the pub.")

• Baronialised/zed is definitely a word, although I accept it's a bit jargony. Both the Pevsner book (Walker & Woodworth) and Charles McKean use it in describing this building; HES don't use the word in their listing documents, they call them "additions and alterations... ...in Scottish Baronial style by David Bryce", but I see it used in listing documents for other buildings, and also in the writings of authors such as John Gifford and A J Youngson (both prolific writers on Scottish architecture), in the Dictionary of Scottish Architecture, in entries in the Buildings at Risk register... it seems to be fairly widely used in the sources. Perhaps I should link it to Scottish_baronial_architecture#Scottish_Baronial_Revival instead though?

1. Fine, just checking. 2. That is what you do link it to, and it seems a fine link to me.

• On the spelling of the word, the sources are mixed. My sense is that most of the academic sources (all the Pevsner books, A J Youngson, Henry Noltie writing for EUP, Ranald MacInnes writing in the Journal of Design History) tend to use a z, whereas more journalistic sources and online databases use an s. Charles McKean is an outlier - he was an academic, but used an s. Maybe it's an Oxford spelling thing? I'm not wedded to the z, if wouldn't revert someone if they thought s was more appropriate.

I bow to the sources. My experience is that non-US z's in similar formulations are unusual, so I wanted to check.

• The question of capitalisation is also slightly vexed, as the sources are inconsistent. W&W capitalise it, McKean doesn't; in other places, I see Gifford sometimes capitalising it and sometimes not. My personal feeling is that it should be capitalised - Scottish Baronial is a specific architectural style, and so should be treated as a proper noun, and words which are derived from proper nouns are usually capitalised - but I'm not really a grammarian, I wouldn't fight if someone disagreed strongly.

Me neither. Capitalising it as a verb seems a little odd, but I couldn't explain why. You have a rationale for your usage, so that seems fine.

GirthSummit _(blether) 08:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Gog the Mild (talk) 09:56, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Gog the Mild, thanks - will submit to GAN. Re: capitalising verbs, if I were to go through and change all the spellings to AmEn, I think I would have Americanised (not americanised) it. On the other hand, milk gets pasteurised, rather than Pasteurised, so... meh? GirthSummit _(blether) 10:09, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. This one seems a bit like W/westernis/zed. I also note that the article you link to is Scottish baronial architecture, which then uses an upper case B throughout the article. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cullen House/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 14:50, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Comments

• "since 1600" would it make more sense to say this about the originally completed house, i.e. since 1602?

 Done

• Cullen is overlinked.

 Done

• " fourteen separate homes" to avoid repeating separate, and to avoid "home" (as that is where the heart is) perhaps "fourteen individual dwellings"?

 Done

• You go from "large house" in the lead to "very large ... mansion" in the first main section....

 Done

• "The house started as an L-plan tower house," try not to repeat house, perhaps building or edifice?

 Done

• " (for Sir Walter Ogilvy" (a) I wouldn't put this in parentheses and (b) I'd say "representing Sir Walter..." to avoid for for issues.

 Done

• " Georgian sash and case" any way of avoiding the next door neighbour blue links? And ought not window be in the link?

 Done

• "Baronialized" any reason for the USEng z rather than s?

See the discussion above with Gog the Mild. I'm not wedded to this spelling, and will happily change it to an s if you think that better, but my semi-competent survey suggests that this is the most common spelling in academic publications (I guess due to Oxford, rather than the US).

• "century, featuring two" split here, lengthy with many run-ons. "century. It features..."

 Done

• Burn of Cullen vs Cullen Burn. I guess interchangeable but just wondering if we should stick with one?

 Done on the proviso that one of the refs refers to it as the Burn of Cullen in the title. Yes, interchangeable - rough majority towards Cullen Burn in the sources;

• Grand Entrance in italics, why?

I got carried away, removed.

• "James Adam " is overlinked.

 Done

• You already linked rampant (lions that is).

 Done

• " by James Playfair i" no need to repeat James.

 Done

• History section overlinks: James, James Playfair (avoid that first name repeat too), Cullen Old Church, William Robertson, Baronial Revival and David Bryce.

 Done

• "style; these" break here.

 Done

• 'through town of Cullen itself" the town.

 Done

• "Scotland - Aberdeenshire" en-dash.

 Done

• Bullet point for external link.

 Done

That's it for my first run. On hold. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:28, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

The Rambling Man - thanks, I've addressed most of the points, just the question on z or s in Baronialized - there is some discussion on the talk page about that, please take a look at let me know if you want me to change it - I don't feel strongly either way. GirthSummit _(blether) 07:41, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

You missed the en-dash I pointed out (and I missed one too) so they're fixed, and I'm not too stressed about "barioniali(s/z)e", although a grand total of fewer than 300 Ghits for both combined probably means that it's sub-optimal in either spelling! If there's another way of writing it, I'd consider it, but I'll leave that to you and perhaps the wider community who are much more in the know than me. So I'll promote. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:53, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

The Rambling Man, sorry about the en dash - I definitely fixed an en dash, must have been a different one! I'm not great at dashing, in any sense of the word... Thanks again for the review, stay safe. GirthSummit _(blether) 07:57, 17 April 2020 (UTC)