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Order of sections

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Hi, I'm just curious why you moved Crystal Bright's "Art & Theater Projects" section above the "Crystal Bright & the Silver Hands" section? My original instinct was to feature CBSH more prominently since there were 175 concerts between 2010-2012 vs. 4 art/theater projects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lovelounge (talk • contribs) 04:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Because that work is more interesting than the band's performance history. Quality is more important in encyclopedic writing, than quantity. Good effort creating this article. Few new editors do as well. Be good to get some links in other articles, so the "orphan" box can be removed. Needs about a dozen carefully considered ones. Lentower (talk) 05:31, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your kind words, and for your help improving the page. However, I’d like to discuss further, since my opinion remains different regarding the placement of the sections. I feel that the full-time band is more interesting than the occasional art/theater project, since the band is ongoing, and is releasing albums and videos that allow people worldwide to enjoy her work in perpetuity, whereas the art/theater projects are not available as commercial dvds and unfortunately can’t be seen by those who weren’t there. Also, the band is entirely her vision, whereas all of the art projects are collaborations. Lastly, 2 of the 4 art projects listed (“Illuminating” and “Bones”) included full performances by her band fully entwined into the art/theater performances themselves. The band just seems integral to virtually all of her work since 2010 and currently, which I believe makes it more interesting and notable than the occasional art/theater project.Lovelounge (talk) 14:40, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
One additional thought - the section in question is not simply the band's "performance history" as you wrote, but rather a discussion of the name and formation of the band, comparisons and quotes and descriptions, inspirations, themes, notable performances, album reviews and videos. As her main creative endeavour, occupier of most of her time, and the vehicle through which she's achieving most of her notoriety, it appears to me to be more interesting and notable than her occasional side projects, wonderful though they may be.Lovelounge (talk) 20:16, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is the article about Crystal or about the band? Perhaps a second article on the band is needed?
Your points haven't convinced me. I also wonder if you are writing with WP:NPOV in mind, or with more of a promotional/marketing point of view? Lentower (talk) 21:11, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe neutrality is an issue since I'm simply seeking to understand why you feel that an artist's occasional side projects should have more prominence than their main body of work. I've cited a lot of reasons to explain my thinking and support my point of view, but you've only said that her side work is "more interesting" which seems subjective. Do you have other points to support your position? Lovelounge (talk) 23:35, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a fair assessment of our discussion to date. It overstates your case, and understates mine. It also implicitly assumes that the number of words are more important than the arguments made. Quantity is more important that quality. Perhaps you should re-read my points, and think about them for a few days. Lentower (talk) 05:17, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality and experience are issues here. Your account has one test edit in January of this year, and then heavy editing staring on 22 July. Less than five weeks of editing. Most of your edits are on this one article. See my comments on the article's neutrality in a new section, below.

I have been editing since March 2006, sixty times as long. Have 63 times the number of edits your account has. Have edited 60 times as many articles. Helping new editors become experienced and put the goals of this encyclopedia ahead of their personal interests is hard.

I propose you stop editing this article for a year, and put in the same amount of effort per week across the encyclopedia. Then come back here, hopefully as a Wikipedian of boarder experience, not just into one article.

Your language above is also subjective, as is a lot of the language in the article itself. E.g. "occasional side projects". Lentower (talk) 05:17, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Show the whole person early

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Biographical articles are more interesting to the reader, if they show the width of a person's contributions early, rather than focusing on their most important contributions early, particularly when the bulk of the words are on a single contribution. The lede is not sufficient to accomplish this. Lentower (talk) 05:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No references in the Lede?

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Why did you take the references out of the lede?

Are they used elsewhere in the article? Thanks! Lentower (talk) 21:47, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

An experienced editor on a different page told me ledes shouldn't have references. If this was bad advice, I'm happy to undo it. All of the references I moved are indeed mentioned elsewhere in the article, except for the one which remains.Lovelounge (talk) 23:35, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Experienced editors differ on this point. The encyclopedia is stronger, if references are introduced as soon as possible. Lentower (talk) 05:18, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality and balance issues

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The article does not have balance. An effort needs to be made to find citations that criticize Ms Bright career and life, and add them. E.g. where she is currently weak, and could improve. The article lacks a WP:NPOV.

It also has a lot of subjective flowery language, only some of which is from citations. That is, the language is often not neutral.

The article is mostly written by one editor, whose contributions seems to show they are a supporter of Ms. Bright's first, and a Wikipedian second.

Also not clear to me if all the sources meet WP:RS. Lentower (talk) 05:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article is Start class not B class

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This article is Start class not B class.

It is little more than a strung together list of citations, with little narrative flow. As well as the neutrality and balance problems mentioned above.

I also wonder if the images used meet Wikipedia standards for not violating the photographer's copyright interests. Many of them are on Ms Bright's web sites. I have not had the time yet to chase this down.

I'm about to reverse my earlier assessments, but will leave the AfC's assessment alone for now. Lentower (talk) 05:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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