Talk:Crown of Ireland Act 1542

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Category:British unionism

I have attempted unsuccessfully to remove this category, explaining in an edit summary that the Act came long before "British unionism" raised its head. Any thoughts? Moonraker (talk) 03:34, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

see [1] for example references. At the end of the day it depends on how we are definining 'British unionism' - is it the current political movement and set of feelings held by a certain set of people, or do we use the term in the way many scholars seem to, which is to describe a broad set of historical movements towards closer union? --KarlB (talk) 03:49, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see anything in those pages which relates the Crown of Ireland Act 1542 to unionism. Perhaps you could clarify how you wish to define "British unionism" and say why it is relevant? Moonraker (talk) 04:19, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For example, this quote from that book is suggestive: "Religion and empire were certainly shared motifs in much of the early conceptualization of union from the mid 16th century onwards; but for later unionists military, economic and other equally secular presures became the main influences upon their thought." So it suggests that "unionist" thinking was present as of the 16th century. Here is another quote which is related: "At the same time as Henry accepted the title of 'King of Ireland' an opportunity arose to achieve a parallel regal union. Early theorists of a British union, such as John Mair, the author of the Historia Maioris Brittanniae (1521) (and deemed by some to be 'the founding father of Scottish unionism) had seen an answer to the costly and bloody Anglo-Scots' rivalry in the form of a dynastic alliance." (p 38) The fact that someone who wrote a book in 1521 is called "the founding father of Scottish unionism" suggests that at least some historians use this word to describe those who pushed for closer union in the 16th century, including what are called 'personal' unions.

As to how I would define unionism, I've seen in other references a differentiation between Unionism vs unionism (i.e. big U) - it seems big-U unionism is used to refer to modern political movements, while small-u unionism (and unionists) is more broad, and used to refer to those who have attempted union, or ideas about union, in the Isles - so I guess I'm not sure which label consensus prefers. Based on the previous contents of the category, I'd assumed it was the latter, not the former. Now, whether you can perfectly apply the label 'British' to something like that is a different issue, and again I don't want to rehash arguments that I've already lost (I preferred a geographic vs ethnic label) - but in any case I think this act and the union of the crowns are clearly both germane to the history of unionism in the isles.--KarlB (talk) 12:03, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Repealed twice?

My reading of [2] is that 1542, 33 Hen. 8: c. 1. An Act that the King of England, his Heirs and Successors, be Kings of Ireland was repealed in the Republic of Ireland in 1962, and my reading of [3] is that 1542 (33 Hen. 8 sess. 2) Analecta Hibernica c. 1. The King, his heirs and successors to be Kings of Ireland was repealed in the Republic of Ireland in 2007. Hence this edit.--Rumping (talk) 20:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do see your point but the lead of the article says it's about 33 Hen. 8 c. 1 and not 33 Hen. 8 sess. 2 Analecta Hibernica c. 1. The former was indisputably repealed in 1962. The latter appears to have been another statute perhaps it just said the same thing as 33 Hen. 8 c. 1 but where is the the source that says this? All we appear to know about it is that if it hadn't been repealed before 2007 it was repealed in 2007. — Blue-Haired Lawyer ^t 20:41, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Date of act

Could somebody please explain – and preferably edit the article to explain – why an act passed in the Parliament of Ireland on 18 June 1541 is known as the Crown of Ireland Act 1542? Why the discrepancy in date? Is it (perhaps) that it was not until 1542 that the act received the royal assent? The confusion is not confined to this article: secondary sources elsewhere vary in saying whether Henry VIII assumed the style King of Ireland in 1541 or 1542. GrindtXX (talk) 12:28, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Got a bit further. From C.E. Challis, "The Tudor Coinage for Ireland", British Numismatic Journal, vol. 40, 1971:

To be sure, the king was proclaimed king of Ireland in June 1541, but it was not until 23 January 1542 that a second proclamation added the words king of Ireland to the royal style and commanded that after the last of April next following the new style be used." On 14 April 1542 Henry informed the lord deputy and council of Ireland of the change and directed them to alter his seals accordingly. Since no one of sufficient skill was to be found in Ireland to accomplish the task, however, wax impressions of the seals (which could not be spared from their daily round) were then made and sent to England so that the work might be undertaken there. It was not until March 1543 that the new seals were finally sent over and only in May of that year that the old defaced seals were sent back to England.

But that still doesn't explain why the Act should be dated 1542. GrindtXX (talk) 13:09, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I'll investigate further. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:14, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Acts were traditionally dated by the monarch's regnal year. In the case of this Act, it was in the 33rd year of his reign. We know that "Henry VIII (28 June 1491 – 28 January 1547) was king of England from 21 April 1509 until his death". So 1509 + 2 began on 22 April 1510. So 1909 + 33 began on 22 April 1541. So it was enacted sometime between 22 April 1541 and 21 April 1542. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Query

Henrician Act still in effect in Northern Ireland? But wasn't the Kingdom of Ireland abolished in 1801? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.241.245 (talk) 06:40, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]