Talk:Crossroads (Battlestar Galactica)

Plot section trimmed

I trimmed the plot section down quite a bit, and incorporated some details from cut scenes available on the recently released DVDs. I was rather shocked by Starbuck also appearing as an apparation, because Season 4 previews show her to be real, and that Starbuck would appear as Head Six does, with the sexy personality to boot. I am assuming that cut scenes released on the DVDs are intended to be integral to the official plot, not part of some alternate plot line that the producers later rejected... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.249.248.247 (talk) 04:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

The scene you mention was cut because it implied that Starbuck's return was a supernatural event, according to Ron Moore. It does not fit into the same continuity as the aired episode, and it obviously doesn't make sense if you consider it as such. I suggest it be removed from the Plot section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.60.47 (talk) 09:56, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

BUTTERFINGERS!

... butterfingers.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 19:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Survivor Counts

Anyone catch the opening Survivor Count? I missed it. Also the numbers Cassidy read off during the opening arguments about the population before the Cylon occupation and after the New Caprica exodus. Battlestar Wiki usually has this info but they don't at the moment. Cyberia23 23:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe there was a count. It was odd. --Geracudd 11:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you think it should be added that there was no count in Part 1? --Geracudd 20:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I work on Sunday nights - which POed me off when SciFi switched BSG to Sunday so I missed the actual beginning. My friend said they completely skipped the opening. They started with "previously on BSG..." then showed a recap of the previous ep, then went right into the show skipping the opening credits. I found that odd but I wasn't able to verify it. Is this really what happened? Cyberia23 20:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the show ran long, and they didn't want to cut anymore scenes (they already cut a great one of Lee and the lawyer in the courtroom before the trial), so they cut the credits and the intro. Josh a z 20:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Guess we'll have to wait for the DVD of season 3 to see if there was a survivor count given. Cyberia23 21:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I bought it from Itunes and reviewed- no count was given.--Geracudd 21:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you provide Cassidy's survivor counts she gave during her opening argument. I can add them to the article. Cyberia23 21:51, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I checked and that count is only of the number before landing on New Caprica and right after their evactuation. No number for this specific episode is given —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geracudd (talk • contribs)

Yeah I know, do you know what they were so I can mention what they were in the synopsis. Cyberia23 22:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually never mind I found them elsewhere. Cyberia23 22:42, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

There's no survivor count because they have effectively found Earth. --lesalle 13:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

No they haven't, even if they did find it in this episode they hadn't found it at the start so they would give a survivor count. Like it has been said, they didn't want to cut the scenes so they cut the title. NIKKKIN 11:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice if someone added the fact that they cut the title to the main article descriptipn as well. If we are going to note that the survivor count has been cut, we should note that the main title was cut as well. I'd say that is more notable in fact, considering that T.V. shows rarely cut the main title for more episode.

Actual New Caprica death toll?

Doing a little research and I see similar conclusions were made on Battlestar Wiki, during the opening arguments of Baltar's trial, Cassidy's tally of those killed on New Caprica during the Cylon occupation, "5,197", seems largely inaccurate, however confusion lies in what she is actually counting. It was stated that she counted only the civilian population of the fleet and not the military personnel. Her original count of 44,035 includes both the population on New Caprica City — which at the end of "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II" is shown as 39,192 and would leave 4,835 living aboard the ships that remained in orbit.

The count of 4,835 in orbit however, doesn't account for those who died when Cloud 9 exploded and the three ships it took out with it. In the episode "Precipice", Apollo mentions about 2,200 people fled New Caprica's orbit when the Cylons arrived which would indicate 2,635 were killed when Cloud 9 was destroyed. With 49,550 as the initial survivor count at the beginning of "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II", one can calculate how many really died. 49,550 - 39,192 - 4,835 = 2,592 which is closer number that actually died on New Caprica. However, it seems Cassidy is also counting those lost with Cloud 9 which would bring the total back to 5,227. Looks like she's holding Baltar accountable for those deaths as well - makes sense since he gave Gina the nuke form his Cylon Detector in that episode.

Further, Cassidy says 38,838 survived the New Caprica exodus. Given the survivor count in "Collaborators" of 41,435 (which counts both civilian and military personnel), and subtracting 38,838, the total killed on New Caprica would be 2,597.

So, roughly 2,595 people actually died on New Caprica for various reasons, not 5,197. The resistance terrorist bombings, Cylon death squads, and whatever people on the surface and ships that were destroyed during the exodus. Cyberia23 03:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Do we know for a fact that the fleet knows it was Baltar who gave Gina the nuke? I think that sort of info would have been sufficient to convict him of something if not treason. Wl219 08:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm honestly surprised they didn't bring the nuke up in court. They gave him the nuke for his Cylon Detector and he had the device in his lab prior to giving it to Gina. Wouldn't have they noticed the nuke was missing??? I don't recall ever hearing that it was reported stolen. The only other conclusion I can draw was maybe they thought he used the entire nuke in his detector upon completion, but in reality he didn't use it at all (or just used part of it) and hid the rest of the device. Because they didn't bring that up I have no idea where Cassidy is getting the extra deaths from. If you count Cloud 9 her total makes sense. Otherwise she's off by like 2600 people. Cyberia23 22:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not that surprised. The only people who would really have any knowledge of Baltar getting the nuke would be Galactica senior staff. Adama even directly addresses it at the end of Lay Down Your Burdens II - He tells Baltar that they should do an investigation into how they stole the nuke, got it off Galactica, etc. Baltar tells him that they won't be looking into it and will be moving forward instead.

Adama isn't Baltar's prosecutor. He can't exactly be like "But wait! He gave the nuke to the Cylons!" Furthermore, no one even knows for sure that he gave the nuke to the Cylons (other than that one dude who was hanging out with Gina on Cloud 9 - the "Demand Peace" guy), or even that it was a Cylon who detonated the nuke. And even had it been brought up, it would have gotten us to the same ending anyway - that have no hard, actual evidence of Baltar's guilt, and Adama isn't going to convict him without evidence after Lee's speech.

That was a ridiculously long digression, but I figured I'd give my reasoning as to why it wasn't brought up / would have been irrelevant if it was anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.240.149 (talk) 04:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Apollo, Mr Adama

Do you think we should call Apollo Mr Adama after his resignation in the episode synopsis, as he no longer holds military rank and call sign? Struds 02:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

We should stay with Apollo, call-sign - nickname - (same thing really). We've all come to know him by that name. It would just add to confusion with his father if he was called Adama. Cyberia23 04:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, just wondered as they were calling him Mr Adama for the latter part of the episode Struds 15:51, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I forget what a law school grad is called before they take the bar exam. A pre-law? I'm not sure. But whatever it is, maybe that should be Lee's new title :) Cyberia23 21:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

"Law graduate". But remember, Lee's only legal education is his grandfather's books. He has no formal training. Wl219 08:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The article on Juris Doctor suggests that the term Doctor would be appropriate for someone who has completed a post graduate law degree but is not a member of the bar. I suppose the holder of an LL.B wuold be called a bachelor (of law). A licensed attorney may also be called Doctor when on the stand as a witness (assuming he or she has a post-graduate law degree), as Lee Adama was in Part II. But since it is not clear that Lee has either a law license or a law degree it is probably best to refer to him as "Counselor". Jason P Crowell 05:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Na, as we have to remember, it's not an earth society. Maybe a comment that he asks to be called Mr Adama now, but probably no need, when i made my first question the artical was in a very different state to what it is now Struds 00:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Call him Lee. Parableman 03:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Unless you are dishonorably discharged, a commisioned officer can always still be refered to by their old rank, and most retirees in the U.S., Canadian, and the U.K. do this with the prefix (Ret.) XXXX. , with XXXX being their rank abbreviation. So even if he hadn't apperantly rejoined the fleet at the end, and even if his callsign wasn't still a good nickname for him which would hold true (and is his connection to the old fleet), as he resigned his commision and was not dishonorably discharged, his old rank and callsign would be just fine even in contemporary society from which the show takes many of it's roots.

5 Unknown Cylon Models

So if they are 4 of the 5, who's the fifth if Kara isn't a cylon? --Ssmeelink 23:36, 25 March 2007

In the first season episode "Flesh and Bone" a Leoben Conoy copy makes an accusation which may or may not be true, as no real call back has been made to what he said. The wiki entry on this episode states what happens best. "Suddenly he grabs Roslin and whispers in her ear that Adama (specifying neither Commander nor Captain) is a Cylon agent." This means that either Lee or the Admiral could be the final Cylon, or this might be a simple attempt to rattle Roslin. However, it is the one of the few hints we might have at the final agent. It may also be noted that #3 exclaimed great astonishment when she discovered the identity of presumably the final Cylon. This would suggest that the final Cylon in question is Admiral Adama. --66.248.160.235 03:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't have to follow from that scene that she saw Adama. All her recognition really shows is that she knew (one copy of) that model from somewhere (maybe in the fleet, maybe before that even) that she didn't realize this person was a cylon and that she felt she'd done something that meant she now needed to apologize to this person. It could still be pretty much anybody (even a new character) from that data. Shelkartmarne

If Admiral Adama is a Cylon, then it throws the whole Hera story away, as Lee and Zak would be the first two cylon-human hybrids. KRichey007

At this rate it seems like no one knows what's going on. It's almost as if the producers throw in a huge plot twist that they don't know how to tie in, and only loosely do so in the next season. But anyway, I'm wondering who is the omnipotent force pulling all of the strings. Is it the final cylon? Someone has to know when to activate the 4 of 5 final ones, and the normal cylons sure as hell don't know what is going on. Maybe it's the same force influencing "head" 6 and "head" Baltar. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.113.90.90 (talk) 11:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

I'm not convinced that the 4 are Cylons, it seems too obvious. Also didnt the tag line for this half of the season say that "One will die, One will find Earth, One will be a Cylon", so why would we find out about 4 models instead of 1. The first two are Starbuck, but whose the Cylon? Also why would they hear earth music if the Cylons havent been there? My guess is that the president is Cylon (although the cancer is kind of a contradiction, but we havent seen an older Cylon before so maybe there are defects in their bodies). It makes sense that she's a Cylon given that she, Athena, Six and Hera all share the vision. Also who jailed the president in new caprica? was it three? maybe thats why she had to apologize? Anyway thats my .02 cents, gotta wait till 2008 now :(206.248.96.83 13:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

RDM has confirmed that they ARE Cylons, but of a "Fundamentally different nature". It also is not clear who the final cylon is but they will "probably" be seen in season 4. While lots of speculation is possible, there is nothing to conclude anyone is or is not other than the 4. What if the final 5 Cylons are actually humans that were sent back from Earth when it was found? D'Anna could have been apologizing to ANYONE, including Tigh. They have not revealed anything that could be cited in an article, so we're all guessing - something frowned upon in Wikipedia articles.--CokeBear 23:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I question if they are cylons by ancestry (aka relation) rather than the final five models. So it is entirely possible that Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, Anders have genetic traits that they share with the cylon species without having actually having twins wandering around on a basestar. We already know of the cylon 'hybrids' that have some sort of psychic ability. I think it is presumptuous of the article to define these 4 as out and out cylons, as we do know that there are different kinds of cylons Nodekeeper 10:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

At this rate, the final cylon is probally GOD himself, and the producers hired him for season four.--158.123.153.254 15:21, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

While it is true that Rosalin did share that vision, I seriously doubt that she could be a Cylon. She is the supposed prophet of the colonies. The Cylons do seem to have a connection with God, but I believe that Rosalin is perhaps one of the only human links to God. --66.248.160.235 20:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

If you think Roslin is a Cylon because she shares in these visions, then that automatically means that Baltar isn't one, yet -he- shares in the visions too. It would be more logical that Baltar were a Cylon, considering how much he has done for them, or more specifically for the Sixes. Roslin at least has an excuse for seeing things, she's using a drug, Chamalla. Based on that information alone, Baltar would be a much more likely candidate.

Also, note that Hera is the first succesful Cylon/Human hybrid child -that we know of- and that only because they re-discovered her on New Caprica. As we all know, even Cylons do not know they are Cylons until this is revealed by their actions, so it is not impossible that Admiral Adama is a Cylon and that Lee is the first (or at least an earlier) Cylon/Human hybrid. After all, Chief Tyrol has a child too, which now turns out to be a Cylon/Human hybrid as well! Apparantly it is difficult but not impossible for Cylons to reproduce with humans.

Finally, it's even possible that Starbuck is a Cylon, after all she comes back from the dead. ;)

But all of this is pure speculation and probably not suitable for Wikipedia. The most important thing to remember is that Cylons -do- seem to have free will, Athena after all is now a trusted officer in the Fleet.Skeptic77 11:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Leoben's comments to President Roslin. If he was telling the truth about an "Adama" being a cylon agent that doesn't necessarily mean that "cylon agent" equals cylon. But if it does, and the fifth cylon is someone named Adama, then it could also be Dualla Adama (Lee's current wife) and potentially Kara Thrace, if it turns out she had been married to Zak or later marries Lee. It might even be/have been the admiral's ex-wife since she is a contemporary of Saul the Cylon, assuming Saul was always a cylon instead of a replacement of some sort. Jason P Crowell 05:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Just a little thing, have you noticed that the 4 characters that found out to be cylons have at least one name starting with a T? Saul Tigh, Galen Tyrol, Tory Foster and Samuel T. Anders. It might be a coincidence, but if we are to believe that it was done on porpouse then the fifth cylon could be someone with a T starting one of his or her names. (Kara Thrace?)

Given T is one of the most common letters in the alphabet, that's REALLY a stretch. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.132.156.26 (talk) 10:19, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Hate to be the straight man here, but to be honest this has nothing to do with this episode and really isn't for discussion, Wikipedia discussions are supposed to be in relation to the episode itself and specifically it's content here. This really belongs more on a fan site, and I'm sure they're all... every last BSG fan site out there... FULL of posts and theories on this if people want to jump to them. In fact having thought about it, that's where I'm off too now...

Clarifications... I meant to say discussion of the FIFTH, which is clearly left ambiguous in this episode, doesn't seem really relevant. Sure it's mentioned in this epispode, but so are Vipers and Six and that doesn't make this the forum for all theories on BSG space fighter craft or the sex drive of robots. (and I'm sure places for those exist, they just aren't here). Discussion of the other four and theories on them on the other hand, well since they were revealed in this episode they DO specifically relate to it, I didn't mean to include them in that like I think I did. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.132.156.26 (talk) 10:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Besides, Bob Dylan is the fifth Cylon.

Location of Fleet - Proximity to Earth

My thought was that presence of the Dylan song in the episode has to do with the fleet now being so close to Earth that they are now encountering old broadcast waves. That would presumably place the "Earth" of Battlestar some centuries ahead of the 1960s, in order for them to have reached that far. Or maybe that's too literal an interpretation... Agent-Artiste 23:51, 25 March 2007

That would be a nice homage to The Hand of God (1978 Battlestar Galactica), but Bear says it's not. Wl219 08:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Near as I can tell, the Lion's Head (or Veil) Nebula is 1,400 light years away from here, so if you're going with the oh-so-literal version, the song first started showing up on our radios in 1967 so 1967+1400=3367. So Galactica's "present" could be no sooner than 3367 and could be as late as 1400 years after any worldwide permanent ban on Dylan broadcasts. AND that's assuming they're picking up some broadcast directly from Earth. If it's actually coming from the Cylons or something else, then none of the above is even relevant. Shelkartmarne

Possibly while at Earth, presuming she was, Starbuck logged onto Napster and scored an mp3 of the song and was then broadcasting it at a frequency only the Cylons could hear? Wilybadger 06:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Again, moot given this. Wl219 08:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

They're not at Lion's Head, they're at the Ionian Nebula which is different. Lion's Head was before they reached the Algae Planet and was where they found the strange canister with the virus. The Lion's Head was also where the two pulsars were. Cyberia23 07:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

From what I can tell from the zoom out/zoom in from the end of the episode, the Galactica is still too far away. It roughly looked like half the galaxy was still left. --65.113.90.90 11:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

That was definetly not the half galaxy. In fact, it was quite near --Nikolang 18:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. It seemed pretty obvious to me that the pull out and zoom in were to essentially the same spot. It's odd that someone has edited the main page to say "The zoom out is clearly from a large galactic object that is near to but disjoint from and above the plane of the galaxy, leading to the conjecture that the fleet is in the Large Magellanic Cloud." I doubt the fleet is in a separate galaxy. Perhaps it meant in the direction of the Large Magellanic Cloud.1Winston 20:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

There is NO conclusion which can be drawn from the pull out-zoom in. I have repeatedly watched the scene, and there is a very clear twist and rotation in the zoom in meant to make it so you can draw no conclusions. The only thing clear is that Galactica appears to be in the same galaxy as Earth - period. Also, note that the cgi effects show Lee and Starbuck to be BEHIND the fleet, not in front of it.--CokeBear 23:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

You need to watch that scene on a very large screen (say, 8 feet across) with a bunch of astronomers sitting in the room. The LMC, which is above the galactic plane is a very obvious refernce, as there are no massive bright clusters like that at the outer edge of the Milky Way which are a part of it; however, the LMC and SMC are exactly such objects. Note the page on the Large Magellanic Cloud refers to the view of the Milky Way from a hypothetical planet in the LMC. The view would be from out and above the plane, on the Earth side of the Milky Way (in the Orion arm), just as the full out zoom showed.206.117.140.69 08:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the note. --Ckatz^chat_spy 08:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Bear... trying to reach conclussions on this, especially ones valid to a Wikipedia article and not a fan page, is beyond the scope of this. Now if someone cares to frame by frame detail it somewhere, and you can source that here, then it would count as 'encyclopedia' material. Otherwise it is just fan opinion, or original research... neither of which is allowable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.132.156.26 (talk) 10:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

As much as people would like to think that there is one legacy of mankind that will last for eternity (broadcast waves), it is simply not true. Radio waves breakdown beyond all comprehension after 1-2 light years.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 19:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

"All Along the Watchtower"

My thought was that presence of the Dylan song in the episode has to do with the fleet now being so close to Earth that they are now encountering old broadcast waves. That would presumably place the "Earth" of Battlestar some centuries ahead of the 1960s, in order for them to have reached that far. Or maybe that's too literal an interpretation... Agent-Artiste 23:51, 25 March 2007

If that were true, it would be a nice homage to the 1979 episode The Hand of God (1978 Battlestar Galactica), where the last thing we see is the observatory picking up a video feed of the Apollo 11 moon landing. Wl219 08:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The purpose of the song greatly reminded me of a story out of the Elder Scrolls video games called "The Poison Song". If anyone would care to read it, the story can be found here, as it is actually a very good read for fans of the series. In brief, a young child begins to here a song play in his head that no other can hear. It begins to suggest to him evil actions such as killing his brother in order to obtain an orb from him. It is eventually revealed in the story that this child is actually a descendant of an evil cult of sorts, and that what he (and other descendants like him) hears is a song from his ancestors. In many ways it is borderline plagiarism close to what the Dylan song represents on Battlestar. --66.248.160.235 04:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

But, given Bear McCreary's blog post in which he says RDM told him "to make no musical references to any 'Earthly' versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others" of Watchtower, this line of speculation is pretty irrelevant and moot, I think. Wl219 08:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Does anybody know what specific cover song was used here? Odds are it's going to be discussed ad nauseum on forums and getting that information up accurately on Wikipedia would help add to the informative nature of the article. (And would let me know what version to buy, of course. :) Twoflower 04:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It's a new version composed by Bear McCreary. A few weeks before the episode aired, McCreary hinted at it in an interview... [1] It'll likely be on the Season 3 soundtrack, which comes out in August.

Just found this...[2] Bear talks about how he created the new cover. It's a great read. Schrödinger 05:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually it's strange that there was an attempt to make no references to any particular versions, because they have actually identified it as Hendrix's version of the lyrics; after his conversation with Adama, Tigh can be heard to say "There must be some kinda way out of here". The word "kinda" was added by Hendrix; Dylan had sung simply "There must be some way out of here". JB — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.143.56.147 (talk) 06:42, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

It is not sung by U2, removing that from the article. Djgranados

forgive my ignorance, but why is this "bob Dylan's" Watchtower and not Hendrix's?171.161.160.10 21:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Jimi was just one of like a million other musicians who have covered this song. Originally it was Dylan song and you can look it up right here on Wiki. I think the Hendrix cover is more popular than Dylan's original which creates confusion as to who originally wrote it. Cyberia23 22:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

To sum up some of this, the commentary for the episode breaks down why they didn't use the Dylan (or Hendrix, or any other for that matter) version. SciFi said that they would pony up the money for one of those versions, but RDM specifically did not want to use one of those versions - he wanted Bear to create his own specificially because it is NOT intended to be a radio broadcast from Earth or anything of that nature. Besides, the fourth season eventually makes it clear where the song comes from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.240.149 (talk) 04:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Removal of "lyrics" text

Ckatz, prior to the inclusion of "Watchtower", it was reasonable to assume that the characters speak some language other than English, (Caprican? Colonial Standard?) but that the stories are presented in English (by convention) for the convenience of an English-speaking audience. With the characters hearing, reciting, and understanding lyrics from "All Along the Watchtower", a specific work written in English, this assumption fails. Skyraider 17:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

You're presuming that the characters "heard" the lyrics in English. There was nothing to indicate that they were all "translating" a foreign language. (In fact, if that were the case, one of them would probably have commented on the strange words.) The choice of "Watchtower" is for the audience (and not the best approach, IMHO.) --Ckatz^chat_spy 17:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I really liked Watchtower my self, anyway I don't believe we should speculate that they heard it in another language. Matthew 17:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe they understand English because they have a universal translator, or a babblefish in their ears! It's really a pointless to argue why the Cylons and Colonials speak English in the first place. It's called SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF and you cannot watch any sci-fi show or movie without it. Otherwise you'd be right and they should be speaking some obscure language which since they have that Greco-Roman thing going on then they should technically be speaking either a dialect of Latin or Greek and they wouldn't understand English. But apparently they understand it, so through suspension of disbelief you have to accept it and move on with the story. Cyberia23 19:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Raiders

On Apollo's DRADIS in the Viper, it it did'nt look like any Raiders were headed in his direction (or anyone elses.) Anyone else notice this? Worth a mention? --Geracudd 18:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe the Cylon fleet had deployed Raiders at that time, of note though: at least we now know the fleet is 100% in Milky Way. Matthew 18:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

You're probably right.--Geracudd 19:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't before?--Energman 19:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't 100%, but undoubtedly it was in the MW eitherway, there was a small discussion at the BSG WikiProject. Matthew 19:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

No I know it is in MW, I was talking about the Raiders not having been launched yet. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Geracudd (talk • contribs) 20:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

The DRADIS on Apollo's raptor shows several instances of 'Enemy Fighter', and 'Enemy Squadron', suggesting that cylon fighter craft are out there. That said, the dimensions of it don't work out. During the zoom out the fighters, then the fleet, then the base stars are shown, suggesting the fighters were going the wrong way... odd. -Matt

Remember that Lee broke formation to check out the unknown DRADIS contact. While he did seem to break off on a trajectory parallel to the other alert vipers, one could argue that he changed course and circeld around behind the fleet when he lost the unknown contact.Frozen North. 17:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

And also, on really slow playback of the zoom out, both a viper intercept wing, and a set of raiders can briefly be seen between the fleet and the base stars. -Matt —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.180.3.22 (talk) 04:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

It was a 100% sure after they found the 'map' on Kobal. They quoted the scriptures saying that the Earth could see each of the original colonies in their constellations. Hence one of the stars in each constellation must be one of the 12 colonies, ergo the colonies were all in the Milk Way. --66.248.160.235 20:33, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Dream Sequence

After reviewing the part of the episode where Six and Baltar see the final five, I noticed that the lights where they were in Rapture were not five in number but six. Should this be mentioned? --Geracudd 18:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

There were five spaces between six lights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.210.31.61 (talk • contribs)

Well, there were six tapestries which I found odd. If your counting the spaces between them is another matter. I think it's a hint that there is a 13th Cylon. One of the Final Five is supposed to be "God" or so Six claimed. I doubt any of the four that were revealed would be the Cylon God. IMO I think Baltar is still a Cylon and he's the last or maybe the 13th. Cyberia23 22:48, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Tapestries, that was the word I was looking for. I'll review Rapture to see how many tapestries there were and where the Cylons were standing. --Geracudd 00:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

There were six tapestries and the Cylons were standing in between them. --Geracudd 13:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Chief's Child

I was just thinking, wont Chief Tyrol and Cally's child also be a hybrid? like Sharon's and Helo's? and if so, wont Chief's child be more "important", as chief is one of the final 4 cylons and they seem to be more "important" than the other 8.

His child is indeed a hybrid, though whether he is more important has yet to be seen. Also, there are five final Cylons, one is presumably not confirmed as of yet. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Geracudd (talk • contribs) 15:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

k ty. this means that the the humans have both hybrids, Baltar and possibly the way to Earth. the Cylons are pretty much left with nothing to go on. sounds good for the humans :D

Ronald Moore has confirmed in his Q&A Podcast that the chief's son is a hybrid, but that the two hybrids' paths will be different. "Nikolas' story is differnt than Hera's but closely related, but yes Nickolas is a [hybrid] child." --208.49.176.211 16:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

cool, so do you think that they will show both of the children's paths in season 4? As season 4 could probably be the last season.

Chief's child is definitely NOT a hybrid - this is confirmed in season 4. I wouldn't be surprised if RDM claimed otherwise in a podcast though - they didn't plan things too far in advance in the show, and he's been known to lie (or at least hide the truth) in podcasts before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.64.240.149 (talk) 04:40, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Earth Image

I have uploaded a new version of the image of Earth which appears at the end of the episode: . I feel this is necessary as it depicts the surface of the planet in greater detail, and in my own opinion appears to show a version of Earth which has no land structures or built up areas. It appears to be entirely forested in Florida for example. Perhaps this is an indication that it is a version of Earth from the past when there is not many people on it? – ARC Gritt^TALK 16:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Look at the full size verison of this. It's not that easy to see human development from space. If it was night time you might see lights from cities. Mad031683 21:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

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Fair use rationale for Image:Battlestar Galactica Season 3 Episode 20 Earth.png

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