Talk:Corned beef/Archive 1

Archive 1

Fritters?

Would anyone object if i made brief mention to tinned corned beef being sliced then shallow or deep fried in batter to make corned beef fritters. This is a common method of eating the tinned corned beef especially in the north-west of England and i know many people and also many shops that serve corned beef in this manner. - Jonathan

Find a reliable source that backs it up and cite it in your addition, and you can add anything. (In oher words, don't write based on personal experience or what you know to be the case -- everything needs to be verifiable.) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Jonathandavis — Would these links do it?Link1 Link2 Link3

Those links attest to the fritters existing, but not to whether they are common, or where. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:52, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Jonathandavis — Ahh fair enough, I shall do some more investigation! :-)

Trivia?

Ummm...there has been some strange things appearing under the "Trivia" section, is this actual information or not? Nol888 01:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

better picture

the picture of the corned beef sandwich on this page seem a little blurry. There's an identical picture on Alan's Kitchen webpage which is sharper. [1] Perhaps it should be replaced? 209.36.79.10 20:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

NY Corned Beef vs. Philadelphia Corned Beef sandwiches

I noticed that the picture of the Corned Beef sandwich from Katz, New York has THICK slices of corned beef. I grew up in Philadelphia, and the corned beef sandwich in Philly is made with very THIN slices of meat.

I've been told this is a regional difference. Can anybody verify my personal observations? I think it would be useful to include in the article if it is possible to verfy 209.36.79.10 20:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

In the Good Eats show mentioned by Zimage above, it's supposed to be NY corned beef, and he makes specific mention of slicing it thinly. May just be a variation for that particular place, or a photographic sandwich (like being able to see the meat in a Big Mac on a commercial, but not being able to in the actual sandwich.) --StarChaser Tyger 02:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I also grew up in Philly, and I am a little confused. So far as I know, a so called "Corned Beef Special (or sandwich)" is just a generic, non-ethnic way to refer to a Reuben. I don't think there is any difference between the two, except for what they are called depending upon what neighborhood one lives in. In any event, Philadelphians have always preferred very thinly sliced meats, from the deli to the cheesesteak. 70.20.219.41 03:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

That picture

Is disgusting, I've had corned beef and it looks nothing like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.174.10 (talk) 23:45, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Corned Beef Recipe

Alton Brown walked through a recipe for making corned beef in an episode of the Food Network show Good Eats. Would it be worthwhile to add a link from this node to that recipe on foodnetwork.com? Zimage 18:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I would love to know how to make my own too. Every so often I buy a corned silverside or corned brisket from the supermarket and cook it up, but it's full of so many additives, I'd love to know how to corn my own.

How is corned beef coooked after it is been cured in the brine ? There is NO mention of this. I just looked at Michael Ruhlman's 'Charcuterie' book and according to his text it's cured for 5 days in a brine w/ garlic and pickling spice (mustard and coriander seeds, black peppercorns,red pepper flakes, mace, allspice berries,bay leaves, cinnamon, cloves and ginger). Then cooked by being covered in water with pickling spice added, brought to a boil then covered and simmered on low heat for 3 hours or fork-tender. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.173.254 (talk) 18:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Argentina & Chile

Why are Argentina & Chile the king of corned beef? I was in my US supermarket the other day and all the corned beef cans (Armour, Hormel, etc) was a product of Argentina or Chile. The front page even references a 1960s typhoid outbreak traced to tins of corned beef from Argentina. So why is so much of it exported from there rather than made in the US? -69.150.130.220 (talk) 16:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Horse meat?

Wonder it anybody could shed any light on the assumption people make that corn beef is made from horses? Theres nothing about it on this article and for a fact many people assume its made from horses. Theres an argument going on with my colleages who swear its made from horses, this is absurd but the more people I ask the more I get the answer HORSES, am sick of it. I think this assumption comes from old yarns, Greatgrandparents passed on to grandparents to mothers and fathers, then finally to us (me even you maybe) I wonder now if this is the same assumption in other parts of the world as it is the case in , Ireland where I come from, maybe even england, wales, scotland pretty sure its the same case in theses places becasse there just over the water from us. I think that there should be a piece on this article about this, as when I heard people thought this I always said 'your nuts its made from beef' hence the name Corned Beef not Corned Horse. I thought wiki could clear this up but it couldn't thats why I want your feedback on the matter and maybe add to this acticle. Thanks McNoddy--McNoddy 09:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I suppose it could be true, but you shouldn't add it to the article yet without some reliable sources because otherwise it's original research. I've personally never heard of that belief (born and raised in United States, California). I know when I go to the grocery store I expect it to be pure 100% cow. ;) JoeSmack ^Talk 17:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

-- -- --

Having eaten my fair share of horse meat (primarily when it gained popularity in the Western United States in the early 1970s), I can attest to the similarity in texture of horse meat and corned beef brisket (especially when carved the wrong way), so, while never having heard that before, I can understand where it may have come from. However, in the USA, you have to make "corned beef" out of BEEF; anything else would have to be called "corned pork," "corned venison," "corned horse," et cetera, or you would run afoul of Federal and/or State labeling laws. F117-A 13:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

See Hamburgers made of Beef. Gazh 13:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Hamburgers are named for the city of Hamburg, not the meat. Dabbler 16:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Then what about Beef Burgers, as they are more commonly known in the UK? Gazh 18:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Some people are ignorant of the fact that hamburgers are named for Hamburg and make an assumption that they contain ham, so marketers decide to pander to their ignorance in case they are accused of misleading advertising. Dabbler 18:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Ignorant? That's strong terminology, i would suggest you refrain from making statements as strong as this in future as it may offend. Gazh 19:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Ignorance is defined as "lack of knowledge" (Concise Oxford Dictionary). What terminology would you prefer? Dabbler 19:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I have never heard of this belief but there may be an origin in seafaring lore. Salt beef used as a principal meat aboard ship in the 18th and 19th centuries was often suspected and believed to be horsemeat, hence the shanty "Old Horse" and the references to the meat being "Dublin horse". Perhaps this carried over to corned beef. Dabbler 15:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I stopped eating corned beefs years ago because someone told me it was made from horses. I just couldnt stomach it. Its a very popular belief and i think it should be included in the article. P.S. - not going back to corn beef now that i know the truth. 74.225.6.221 21:35, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Are you a vegetarian? If not, then how can you stomach eating cows, pigs, chickens, and lambs, but not horses??? Horses, as well as dogs, have been eaten by humans since humans have domesticated those animals, it's just a phenomenon of the 20th century that we've changed our moral outlook on the topic and have stopped eating what we consider companion animals. Full disclosure: I study veterinary medicine, so I have some knowledge of the topic. 85.178.56.120 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 10:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Guys, corned beef is KOSHER (or should be). Horses are as "treif" (non-kosher) as pigs. You can't make a silk purse out of sow's ear, and you can't make corned BEEF out of a horse, a pig, or a camel. Next topic! ; - )) 68.5.64.178 19:36, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Un-reliable or reliable

As we are not getting anywhere fast Jedi Lofty. I'll be the one to open discussions, you mentioned that the information I supplied was ' Not exactly a reliable source! (!) Well its not exactly an unreliable source either in that case, do you agree. Surely it’s a bit harsh to say the least, to call it vandalism. There are areas in this article, which are not sourced, such as 'Traditional corned beef is highly seasoned and often considered delicatessen fare' but this info has a place in the article. I have suggested before that people believe that corn beef is made out of horsemeat. Having came across the Toluna website I thought what an opportunity to prove this. I think your been a bit hasty in choosing your words. --McNoddy (talk) 09:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

WP:SOURCES states that acceptable sources are "... reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" and that "Tiny-minority views and fringe theories need not be included, except in articles devoted to them." WP:QS states that sources to be avoided include those which "... rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions."'. If there are any sources from mainstream news organisations that comment on the "horsemeat as corned beef" theory, then by all means use them. I had a look to see whether any of the main news outlets used Toluna polls in their articles and could find none (whereas MORI, Gallup and YouGov are all fairly well-respected) I apologise for the "vandalism" revert, but when sources have been challenged, simply reverting without any explanation, I tend to assume the worst. :-) -- JediLofty ^User_Talk 10:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Thats O.K apology accepted. Having read the guidelines on wiki, sourses, I can see now its a bit dubious. I can't see any other way to prove this other than a survey, I don't think its possible to post a poll on Ugov (am familiar with this site). I think that I'll just leave it at that because for one, I couldn't see an article ever been printed or posted on the internet about now some people believe that corn beef is made out of horse. --McNoddy (talk) 10:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Notable Corned beef Delicatessens

I wonder why this section is here, as it seems only to serve as advertising for Schwartz's. Also, given the comments above concerning the differences between corned beef, pastrami, and montreal-style smoked meat, and that Schwartz's is notable for it's Montreal smoked meat and not its corned beef, if it would even qualify?PoliSciMaster (talk) 17:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The "notable corned beef delicatessens"

It seems highly unlikely that the only ones are from eastern Canada.

I removed the section and posted it here.

Schwartz Deli, Avenue St. Laurent, Montreal, Quebec, Canada

The Corned Beef House, Adelaide St. Downtown, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Zoulpy's Deli Restaurant, King St. Downtown, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

69.109.172.123 (talk) 20:31, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

would corn beef be considerd a red meat

it is st patricks day and iam on a no red meat diet is corn beef considered red meat?

Yes. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

In fact, expanding on that, what gives it the red color that other types of beef lose when cooked?-it doesn't turn grey or brown. Chris 02:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Saltpeter is used when making it (as with pastrami). This is what makes it pink.Paul E Nolan 20:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The article doesn't say anything about saltpeter being a typical ingredient. Perhaps it should? Davemenc 03:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

according to michael ruhlman - sodium nitrite aka pink salt is normally used although in europe it is still more common for saltpeter (potassium nitrate) - pg 38 'charcuterie' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.173.254 (talk) 18:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

perhaps I'm missing something here about the definition of red meat, but isn't beef always considered a red meat, regardless of whether it's brined, cured, smoked, broiled or otherwise treated? VetLH (talk) 10:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

This. Beef is always classed as a red meat, no matter what you do to it.

Corned beef does not have to be in tins

Fresh products sold as "Corned Beef" definitely exist in the UK. Here's an example from Sainbsury's:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1255297170712

(If that link doesn't work, searching for corned beef on the Sainsbury's website turns it up.)94.194.66.92 (talk) 21:41, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

The linked product, along with all 30+ items turned up by searching for "corned beef," looked to me like either the canned version or slices from some similarly ground/shredded/shaped product, certainly nothing that looked to me like the corned beef common in delicatessens and supermarkets in the US.--Jim10701 (talk) 21:54, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

But it's called corned beef. How similar it is to the tinned sort in the UK, or to what is known as corned beef in the USA I don't know. If there is a significant US-UK difference, then the article needs to reflect that. In any case, the current state of the article continues to imply that in the UK corned beef is only sold in tins, which is obviously false unless you intend to argue that something that says corned beef on the packet isn't corned beef (in which case why hasn't the Food Standards Agency made it be changed>)94.194.66.92 (talk) 06:08, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Irish corned beef

The article suggests that "corned beef" is not a commonly eaten food item in Ireland. This is untrue. It is regularly eaten with cabbage and mashed potatoes as an alternative to boiled bacon and sold in ready cut packages for boiling even in supermarkets. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.71.107.195 (talk) 19:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

The distinction being made, which I think is fairly clear how the article reads now, is that it is not a food that originated in Ireland and was subsequently brought over to the U.S. by immigrants.

I'm 53, living in Ireland all my life, and I have never eaten, or been offered, corned beef and cabbage. I've never seen it offered on a menu anywhere here. It seems to be an American Irish immigrant thing, definitely not traditional in Ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sapix1 (talk • contribs) 08:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm from Ireland and lived there most of my life, and had never heard of corned beef until I traveled to America and was asked about it there. It's definitely much more of an Irish-American thing. I've asked many people at home if they've ever heard of it, and the ones who had only knew of it in an American context. The two links below should help clear things up.

"Many Irish people, during that period, got their first taste of beef when they emigrated to America or Canada -- where both salt and meat were cheaper. There, when they got beef, the emigrants tended to treat it the same way they would have treated a "bacon joint" at home in Ireland." - http://www.europeancuisines.com/Why-We-Have-No-Corned-Beef-Recipes

"Beef was a luxury at home; cows were kept for their milk, but steer (known as bullocks in Ireland) were raised mostly for export. The cured meat of choice was bacon, which referred to any cured pork. Irish in America found beef plentiful, so corned beef and cabbage was born. Like St. Patrick's Day, the Irish-Americans made it their own." - http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/food/articles/2008/03/12/wheres_the_corned_beef/ Eoinmcunningham (talk) 20:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Also raised in Ireland and the only times I'd ever encountered corned beef over there was as a cold meat, either in tins or as slices from a shaped log of meat. It is definitely not part of a traditional meal eaten with cabbage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnmcorg (talk • contribs) 01:47, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Why is there such little information about Corned Beef?

I would figure the methods used to make corned beef would be present. also, where corned beef gets its name from...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.19.38 (talk) 04:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Contradictions between St Patrick's Day and Ireland sections

An editor has pointed out that the St Patrick's Day and Ireland sections are contradictory. Anyone know the real story? noq (talk) 18:51, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

irish people dont eat corned beef,you can buy it in cans,but it is never served as a meal ,you would make sandwichs with it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.247.105.52 (talk) 21:35, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, actually this contradicts everything I've ever heard. The Irish weren't big on beef in general for the same reason many agriculture-intense cultures do: milk and labor is more valuable than beef. It doesn't help that it's gone through some pretty harsh famines. Pork was a much more popular meat source.

There's also the fact that this one reference source has broken links on their site and very little reason to be considered reliable. It also seems to have twisted actual information and misunderstood it.

However, other sources seem to point out that they're talking about a specific version that's unrelated to this particular article. It would be like tagging spam as ham because they're both preserved pork products. It seems like they're are talking about two varieties of corned beef. One that's basically a side of beef preserved entirely in salt like prosciutto rather than brined and then braised. Another that's canned and the beef version of spam.

Please read the following:

http://www.europeancuisines.com/Why-We-Have-No-Corned-Beef-Recipes

http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/2Kitch/aCBeefCabge.html

I'll be making edits with references. --99.32.206.154 (talk) 01:04, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Date needed for completeness

In the opening words: The Oxford English Dictionary dates the usage of corn, meaning "small hard particle, a grain, as of sand or salt." So what is the date of first occurrence from the OED? (Alternatively we could just say ...Dictionary defines an early usage of corn as "small...) Casey (talk) 10:47, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I work at a world re-known manufacturing facility making Corned beef, the "Corned" comes from about 800AC, the Germans used salt rocks which looked like oat seeds. The word Corned is a bastardized version of the word used by the English and Irish, and it only refers to salt...no coriander is ever used in its cooking. It just happens that back in the day meats were preserved in salt. This meat had to be boiled over and over gain with fresh water to eliminate the salt flavor of the meat. Today there is no need to cover mats with salt since we have refrigerators and freezers.I know this because I created the current recipe!

Sincerely, Miguel Nieves

ANSWER BELOW IS WRONG!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.87.64.30 (talk) 22:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Gemini 3

Can we put Gemini 3 in the See also list? I thought of it because of the corned beef sandwich involvement during the spaceflight. A-yao 04:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Move over Kimosabe,

In 1982 there were over 413,000 cans of "Corned Beef" removed from shelves in Brazil after the government found out that the company was using both horses and beef to make their version of "Corned Beef", this same company was fined by the Austrian government in 1991 for selling minced horse meat as pheasant.

Sincerely, Miguel Nieves, culinary historian & chef —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.87.64.30 (talk) 22:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I think we need to split off salt beef from this article.

I appreciate it's "the same" in some senses as corned beef, but then sprouts and brocolli are both types of cabbage, FFS! Anyone who's had the real deal isn't going to be comparing it to prince's any time soon. What do we think? 86.178.52.148 (talk) 19:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

pureness of canned corn beef

do you think canned corned beef is only beef?65.95.127.101 (talk) 02:29, 10 January 2011 (UTC)dc

"Soylent Green is people" Jeanpetr (talk) 08:45, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Corned = Corriander

Wiki and others claim corn'ed beef refers to "corns of salt". Nobody eats salted beef and say "yumm, corned beef". Corned beef (presently, 2010) is in fact Corriander-seasoned beef. Corn'd implies "corriandered" (sic) meaning seasoned with corriander, the seed of the Cilantro plant.

It may be that historically "corned" referred to "corns of salt", but this implies that corned beef is nothing more than salted beef which in modern times would be regarded as simply "beef" that has been seasoned (let's face it - we salt everything). Salt is not magical now, nor then. It has been washing up on shores for centuries. Corriander, on the other hand, requires agriculture and civilization to cultivate and develop the spice for repeated mass use. Purchase a beef brisket, season with corriander and taste for yourself how the flavor results in Corned Beef - not salty beef. Not that there's anything wrong with that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.40.128 (talk) 04:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Once again a US/UK difference, I have a can of corned beef with me as I write this, there is no mention of corriander or any other herbs or spices on the label; beef, water, salt, sugar, sodium nitrite and that is it. As for the comment about corned beef in the UK only being available in cans, this is obviously incorrect but all those packets of corned beef are just slices of the canned product which have been decanted, probably for 'value added' reasons.Mandolin666 (talk) 13:58, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

We need references and citations to claims. --75.43.132.67 (talk) 05:40, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Reference: The United Kingdom. Seriously... 87.112.178.244 (talk) 07:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Coriander has nothing whatsoever to do with traditional corned beef. Corning (salting) was done to preserve the meat in the days before refrigeration. it is a very similar process to making dry cured bacon - a loin or belly of pork salted until cured. The use of saltpetre as a curing agent is simply a way of disolving the curing potassium or sodium mixtre to achieve complete immersion or penetration thus eliminating the danger of uncured sections within the meat. Also in UK, all corned beef starts out in tins - the sliced article seen in deli counters comes from a 6lb tin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.131.227 (talk) 01:14, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Nitrate/nitrite

I added a fact tag to the claim potassium nitrate or sodium nitrite is added to preserve the pink colour. While it does have that effect and it's likely an incentive, as worded the article implies preserving the pink colour is the sole reason. However I'm not sure whether it can even be considered the main reason nowadays. According to sodium nitrite and potassium nitrate as well as [2] and other sources, nitrites/nitrates are important as preservatives in helping slow the grow of bacteria, particularly botulism as well as having other benefits. Some sources don't recommend curing for longer then a week without the use of nitrites. It's probably more accurate to say nitrites were tradionally added to preserve the colour (although I'm not sure if even that is true) but are now recognised as having several important benefits. Nil Einne (talk) 08:55, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Corned beef hotpot

Another excellent article about ethnic food - which (it sounds to me) is written by an American. It seems that we Europeans constantly look to the US to learn about our shared food heritage. I came across this when looking at recipes for sauerkraut... discussion on the topic thrives in the US. Perhaps (as in pronunciation of the language that divides us) our cousins treasure their connections to the old world that their forebears left behind - whilst we take them for granted and risk loosing them.

But in the interests of accuracy, can I pick up the article on a teeny-weeny point? There is a reference under the United Kingdom to "hotpot". Although there is wide variation of language within the UK, I'm fairly sure that "hotpot" is (more often than not) prefixed by the term "Lancasire" and universally refers to a lamb or mutton dish - a stew containing vegetables barley, sometimes black pudding and topped with a layer of thinly sliced potatoes. Stand to be corrected but I don't recognise it as a variation of corned-beef hash.

Regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.146.248 (talk) 15:08, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Sources and Verification

I attempted to verify the comments made on the "Corned Beef Special" sandwich mentioned in the article. Google showed 92 links under "corned beef special" "r&w deli" ... all of which used EXACTLY the same lead sentence as the Wikipedia article (except that about six of them had the date as 1965 instead of '57). About half of these also said "citation needed." Everybody's quoting everybody else, but no one is showing definitive independently-verified fact. Therefore, I will be editing the Wikipedia article to show that the sandwich is attributed to Mr. Weber, as opposed to verified to be his. F117-A 07:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

---

Someone put a citation needed link on the statement towards the beginning of the article, that "perhaps the most famous" use of corned beef is the corned beef on rye sandwich. Does this really need a citation? JasonAdama (talk) 19:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I think so. I'm from the UK and have never heard of a "Corned beef on rye sandwich". Maybe this is another US-only thing? -- JediLofty ^{User ¦ Talk} 09:24, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah - their thing called corned beef is very different from ours; much closer to pastrami than dogfood. :) 78.151.182.44 (talk) 14:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm in the US and have also never heard of a "Corned beef on rye sandwich"... I would say the most famous thing is corned beef and cabbage with brown mustard dipping sauce and a side of boiled potatoes and carrots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.33.36 (talk) 04:36, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Rubbish, it's clearly Corned Beef with a Custard Coulis and Anchovy Bread. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.94.137.1 (talk) 10:10, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

The term comes from the treatment of the meat with "corns" of salt

The article states: «The term comes from the treatment of the meat with "corns" of salt»

But what does «corns» exactly mean in this sentence? (Co has many meanings: Corn (disambiguation) is a disambiguation page, and no one of them seems to fix to this sentence) --79.7.134.52 (talk) 16:54, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

If it helps:

The term "Corned" comes from putting meat in a large crock and covering it with large rock-salt kernels of salt that were referred to as "corns of salt" This preserved the meat. The term Corned has been in the Oxford English Dictionary as early as 888 AD.

--Source: [| http://www.kitchenproject.com/history/CornedBeef.htm ] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.55.54.36 (talk) 08:21, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Disagree with much of the above!

The discussion above strikes me as over simplistic - or over complicated. The origin of the expression is somewhat hazy to say the least, whereas the existence of a virtually universal US/UK usage difference not in dispute.

The expression corned comes originally from the verb to Corn, which according to the Shorter Oxford Dictionary is "Corn v. 1560. 1. trans To form into grains, as gunpowder. 2 intr To become granular - 1679". Corned beef in tins has been treated (with corns of salt) to make it granular, hence when tinned beef was introduced into the Royal Navy in the 1830s sailors who were familiar with corned gunpowder saw the similarity and named it accordingly, if we are to believe C S Forester in 'Hornblower in the West Indies'!

Hence even the references to corns of salt are potentially misleading because they are also called corns because of this verb! DickyP (talk) 09:00, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Salt Beef/Corned beef

Isn't salt beef REALLY different to corned beef? It my corned beef is minced beef and fat served tinned. Whereas salt beef is slices of salted preserved beef? I very different eating experiance, and much tastier! If so, why is salt beef directing here? Here is some salt beef: http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/742/177016.JPG and here is corned: http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/813/10087701.JPG rather different, i hope you will agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.12.208.94 (talk) 18:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I Thought this had been dealt with a long time ago! At the end of 2006/early 2007 it was all correct, but someone keeps changing the facts of the article.

In the UK, Salt Beef is sold in delicatessens, often hot:

Corned Beef is sold in a tin. This is the beef usually known as Bully Beef: File:C Beef99.jpg

Salt Beef is NEVER known as bully beef OR Corned Beef and is not sold in a tin.

J.P.Lon (talk) 09:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

"Corned beef" can be found in packets or at the delicatessan in pretty much any supermarket. It'll be next to the ham, and it looks exactly like the picture above 94.194.66.92 (talk) 21:32, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I've lived in both the US and the UK and can safely state the the corned beef in the US is not the same as the corned beef in the UK - Corned beef in the UK comes in tins (even when it's sliced on the deli counter it started out in tins). The corned beef in the US is just like salt beef - salted and boiled brisket. 75.69.101.208 (talk) 16:18, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, the UK part of the article is not correct, in the UK corned beef always comes in cans - it's made from minced beef cooked in a can with fat - usually imported from South America - this is also known as bully beef, which is not the same as boiled beef (which is a piece of beef boiled). What Americans call corned beef we call, salt beef, or boiled beef (which is made from salted brisket, which has been boiled)--62.249.233.80 (talk) 16:59, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

"...in the UK corned beef always comes in cans..." Apart from the slices that you can buy pre-packaged or on the supermarket deli counter? Tool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.185.144.121 (talk) 13:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

You mean the stuff that they've taken out of their catering size cans and sliced for you? The fact that you buy the stuff in small quantities pre-sliced with a hefty mark-up doesn't mean that it didn't originally come in a can from argentina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.68.120 (talk) 09:07, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

2016 No changes were made to reflect this or expand upon. If you look up salt preserved meat, there is very little in the entry in Wikipedia. It just clicked to me that Canadian/American corned beef brisket is actually salt beef, and why you would probably never find "salt beef" if you ever went looking for it in a regular grocery store. I have never heard of the term Salt beef in Canada before, only in Caribbean recipes, where it used to be used a lot, and was probably introduced by the British Sailors/Navy. It seems the term was also used in New Newfoundland also, and probably disappeared when the Canadian term was introduced. This article explains why Jews are also associated with corned beef, more so than a British practice/tradition http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1359876/Salt-beef-You-make-dont-forget-tell-half.htmlStarbwoy (talk) 16:40, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Corned beef with rice

I'm not sure where it originated, but corned beef hash mixed with tomato sauce, assorted spices, and a few other optional ingredients, served over rice is a popular dish in Hispanic homes. --38.101.126.131 (talk) 14:14, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Originated from British/ territories / islands in the Caribbean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starbwoy (talk • contribs) 16:47, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Two very different products

We're clearly dealing with two very different products here. The UK (and Commonwealth?) version of corned beef, packaged in tins and formed of ground cooked and uncooked beef, and the version eaten pretty much everywhere else, which has more in common with pastrami. This needs to be made more clear in the article lead, and both products should be given their own sections.

GBev1987 (talk) 17:26, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Separate page for "Bully Beef"?

There appear to be issues with this page convoluting two different types of beef product. I think the simplest solution is to move the UK usage to Bully Beef. Power~enwiki (talk) 02:08, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

^This seems to have been done.5.198.10.236 (talk)

Flag removed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.220.101.62 (talk) 05:24, 2020 September 17 (UTC)

Content move

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Corned_beef&type=revision&diff=797532704&oldid=795975512

Moved to Talk:Bully beef

I can't state for certain that the content in the history section of this page is 100% about corned not bully beef - so that still needs checking.5.198.10.236 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:20, 27 August 2017 (UTC)