Talk:Corned beef

Major Problems with this page

Several problems here - Corned Beef in the US is clearly a different product to the one used in the UK & Ireland (and Commonwealth countries) - UK Corned beef is tinned. Even when sold as a deli counter sliced meat, it has come from a bigger tin. It's made with Saltpetre (probably salt too - but the saltpetre is the main thing). Usually imported from South America - and before the Falklands war almost entirely from Argentina. US corned beef is a cured beef product - it's not usually tinned. (but tinned UK style corned beef is possibly available too). It's counterpart in Europe is Salt Beef - typically a Kosher product. Tinned Corned beef was popular during the two world wars as a non-perishable meat for use by troops - and christened "Bully Beef" - not because it sounds like Bouillon - but because beef comes from a Bull - and there would often be a picture of one on the the can. During the 2nd world war it was sold increasingly to civilians in the UK and Ireland - meat was tightly rationed by the Government, and the meat ration could be doubled if applied to corned beef rather than fresh meat. This led to it being used in traditional recipes such as Lancashire Hot Pot, Irish Stew, or Scouse - and turning them into Corned Beef Hash. - often with very little meat and large amounts of potatoes - which could be grown locally in gardens and allotments. It's entirely possible that tinned corned beef is intended to be a version of the 'Salt Beef' sold as 'Corned Beef' in the US - but it really isn't remotely similar. The meat in tinned corned beef is chopped rather than minced.

Corned Beef remains popular in UK - but salt beef and Pastrami are also increasingly popular as sandwich fillings - often with heavy Dark Rye Bread (eg. Pumpernickel) rather than the lighter Rye Breads eaten with corned beef in the US. Part of popularity of the tinned version is that it keeps forever in the tin, and can be used to make a meal extremely quickly. West Indian (Caribbean) and Irish brands are available in specialist sections of supermarkets in UK

The whole section on Ireland and the famine needs cutting out - it's not remotely relevant - it's about beef NOT corned beef. Irish Beef is seen in the UK as a high quality product (Many restaurant - McDonalds & Burger King for example generally state : We only use British and Irish Beef ) - Differences in Irish and UK diets are subtle - like regional English differences.

If I could put all this in a revised article and source the information I would but it would take me more time than I have ! - Sorry ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:c7d:7aef:2500:b574:2914:360f:88c6 (talk) 02:08, 2017 July 24 (UTC)

I broadly concur with this poster's sentiments. The article as of now does at least mention that the "US version" is known in the UK as salt beef. I have had a nice salt beef sandwich at Selfridge's in London once upon a time and as I recall it was more less exactly what I would expect of a corned beef sandwich in North America. I still think this distinction between that and bully beef as corned beef needs to be made stronger. Or common origin explained more, if any. I grew up in Canada with the tinned corned beef aka bully beef, but we also had and I encountered deli corned beef at a relatively young age. Of course we also have smoked meat and pastrami, and the respective wiki pages at least offer clues to the differences among those very similar products. Random noter (talk) 16:00, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Would this article be better renamed 'salt beef'. This term is most widely used globally to refer to this kind of brined beef product, and has a number of cognates in other languages. It is used in the USA interchangeably to refer to what is called 'corned beef' here. In the UK, Ireland, and commonwealth, corned beef refers to the canned product (nobody uses the term bully beef, this is highly anachronistic) and salt beef refers to the subject of this page. Considering that, calling this 'salt beef' would not be incorrect in any context. That would help clear up confusion and the page currently titled 'bully beef' could be retitled corned beef and only require a small note to say that in the USA 'corned beef may also refer to salt beef'. 88.108.60.202 (talk) 13:00, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

I would concur that with the sentiment of this article being renamed Salt Beef. It seems quite US centric currently. Commonwealth refers to this salted beef and also, I would argue, better defines the product for distinction. "Corned beef" would better be used as a Disambiguation or the pages be delisted as Corned Beef (commonwealth) Corned Beef (US). Jo Jc Jo^{Talk💬Edits📝} 23:29, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

This seems eminently sensible. Would you happen to know the process to get this done? 82.11.195.62 (talk) 03:04, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Corned Beef vs. Pastrami vs. Montreal Smoked Meat

The statement "Smoking corned beef, usually with the addition of extra spices such as black pepper, produces a cold cut known as pastrami, or, in Canada, smoked meat" is misleading at best. It is most obviously interpreted as meaning that pastrami is known by the name "smoked meat" in Canada. This is flat out false - "pastrami" is both widely available and commonly known. "Smoked meat" is generally a Montreal or Quebec item, and is known in other parts of Canada as "Montreal smoked meat" where it is also both widely available and commonly known, very often alongside both pastrami and corned beef.

While it can be similar to corned beef and pastrami, generic smoked meat is considered distinct from both. Most importantly, it differs from both by way of the fact that it is usually not "corned" or brine cured - it is simply smoked. The Wikipedia entries for pastrami and smoked meat note these differences. Montreal smoked meat on the other hand is a specific item that is in fact similar to corned beef and pastrami. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.147.217 (talk) 21:49, 2007 December 14 (UTC)

Modest usage corrections

Removed the adjective "diverse" from this passage: "The Jewish population produced similar salt-cured meat from beef brisket, which Irish immigrants purchased as corned beef from Jewish butchers. This may have been facilitated by the close cultural interactions and collaboration of these two diverse cultures in the United States' main 19th- and 20th-century immigrant port of entry, New York City.[10][14]"

I do not believe as a matter of usage that "diverse" can be a modifier for a set that has only two components. Although brief internet survey produced no relevant linguistics information at the moment. "Different", "very different", "quite different" or "distinct" might be appropriate usage, with the choice to be made based on how different the editor wishes to suggest them to have been. I would suggest that "...close cultural interactions and collaboration of these two cultures in the United States' main 19th- and 20th-century immigrant port of entry, New York City" without any modifier on the word "cultures" is better English usage and makes the entire point. Random noter (talk) 16:06, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

I am not entirely convinced by the phrasing of this passsage- "The Jewish population produced similar salt-cured meat from beef brisket, which Irish immigrants purchased as corned beef from Jewish butchers. This may have been facilitated by the close cultural interactions and collaboration of these two cultures in the United States' main 19th- and 20th-century immigrant port of entry, New York City."

It has the ring of either trying too hard to use academic speech modes for the sake of doing so, or of implying a higher order of "collaboration" than what the subject is about. Whatever these groups were doing in terms of political organization, social organization, collaboration on social welfare, or other higher pursuits, or not, this article is about something affected by everyday life, interactions among regular people shopping in each others' stores and trying their food. Collaboration is the wrong word. Cultural interactions is a better if arguably too elevated term. But better. The only other thing is the use of cultural twice in the same sentence.

On this one, I am removing the initial "cultural" and adjusting the rest only slightly. to "close interactions between these two cultures..." Random noter (talk) 16:13, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Sorry- I ultimately made more adjustments to that short para, especially after fully realizing that the sentence about purchasing from Jewish butchers made more sense as a lead in to the idea about interaction, rather than the trailing clause of the first sentence. Adjusted the whole thing to the following version "The Jewish population produced similar salt-cured meat from beef brisket. Irish immigrants often purchased it as corned beef from Jewish butchers. This exchange was an example of the close interactions in everyday life of people from these two cultures in the United States' main 19th- and 20th-century immigrant port of entry, New York City." Random noter (talk) 16:21, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Hong Kong section

On top of the section need citation, i think the ingredients is referring to, is "鹹牛肉", which in fact are minced "Corned beef" which came from canned food. I never saw non-minced "Corned beef sandwich" in Hong Kong personally. Matthew hk (talk) 21:34, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Too many images

Images are stacked, unnecessarily on the left, and sandwich (no pun intended) text. The easiest way to remedy this would be by taking all of the images placed in unrelated sections out and relying on the Commons link. I know people like adding pictures, but how many images of sandwiches do we really need?Orangejuicedude (talk) 22:01, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

I removed a few of the images, should be ok now. Seems to be a common issue for these articles. Hickoryglaze (talk) 01:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Nutricional value / health

Could someone add nutricional value and/or health information of the product to the [corned_beef] ? Theking2 (talk) 13:00, 14 May 2021 (UTC)