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Talk:Cora Babbitt Johnson

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Better Source for Early Opposition

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It seems that her impact on the monument is primarily covered in one blog and one undergraduate thesis that is too new to have made an actual impact on scholarship.

Another issue is that Rex Alan Smith's book seems to have problems in the way of reliability and the same can be said for Gilbert C. Fite's book.

There are plenty of primary sources listed in the undergrad thesis, but I'm not sure if it's ethical to cite those without citing the thesis.

Could someone spend a little time researching this? I might be missing sources. Borg Axoim (talk) 02:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 14:46, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • ... that early environmentalists like Cora Babbitt Johnson almost prevented the carving of Mount Rushmore? Source: Smith, Rex Alan (January 1, 1985). The Carving of Mount Rushmore. New York City: Abbeville Press. pp. chapter 2 and chapter 5; Fite, Gilbert Courtland (1952). Mount Rushmore. Internet Archive. Norman : University of Oklahoma Press; Merritt, Riley (2024-04-01). "Borglum's Horse Flies: The Early Opposition to Mount Rushmore". Honors College Theses.
    • Reviewed:
5x expanded by Borg Axoim (talk) and Crunchydillpickle (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Borg Axoim (talk) 16:27, 14 April 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: The nominated article has one paragraph without a citation. The uncited paragraph could be supported in part by pages 11 and 121 of Mount Rushmore by Gilbert C. Fite, it talks about the Hot Springs Star's editorial stance. https://archive.org/details/mountrushmore00univ/page/121 I also suggest that an alternate wording like "that early environmentalists like Cora Babbitt Johnson almost prevented..." rather than the current wording. Update:Thanks to Mary Mark Ockerbloom for working on the reference problems on the article. Do either of the two nominators, Borg Axoim or Crunchydillpickle, have any final thoughts or last minute suggestions? 🌿MtBotany (talk) 03:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2: ... that the efforts of Cora Babbitt Johnson delayed the construction of Mount Rushmore until 1927?--Launchballer 02:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Borg Axoim and Launchballer: My preference would be for ALT2, but could I get the page for that? I have difficulties finding it in either of the sources given. (You can add the page easily with {{rp|<page number>}} (Template:Rp) right after the citation, if you don't want to change the whole citation style. I usually do that.)
Will approve if the page is given, otherwise I could go with ALT1, even though it feels more generic and doesn't highlight the achievements as nicely. –LordPeterII (talk) 20:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I note that the nominator hasn't edited since 22 May. Page 56 of [1] (as linked to in ref #16) states that Gunderson obstructed the project as much as possible; page 63 says that Gunderson was replaced by Bulow. Page 64 states that Johnson stepped down from the Hot Springs Star in February 1927, and page 67 says that construction began in 1927.--Launchballer 10:14, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for stepping in then, Launchballer, and giving the pages. However, as I was previously reprimanded (a bit) for not checking hooks throughly enough, I am hestitant to approve ALT2 as-is: Her efforts were certainly influential, but the source states that other causes might have contributed to Gunderson's opposition. Maybe a modified ALT2 with something like "helped delay", which makes that more clear? –LordPeterII (talk) 13:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm struggling to think of another equally concise way of putting it, and I suspect 'contributed towards delaying' would get WP:DYKTRIMmed to that, so I propose ALT2a: ... that the efforts of Cora Babbitt Johnson helped delay the construction of Mount Rushmore until 1927?.--Launchballer 13:42, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I think this is the best option, or at least I can think of none better. I hope it's fine if I approve since I kinda suggested the change; but trout me if it's not, I don't want to have this sit in waiting for eternity.
Approve ALT2a.
(Technically I think ALT1 is also correct, but I don't really like it since it says "person X thought person Y was bad", which doesn't say much about person Y and puts her in a bad light. Thus, I'm not approving that one.)LordPeterII (talk) 12:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LordPeterII and Launchballer: I don't see the hook cited in the article, can you help me find it? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:34, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fourth paragraph: "She also wrote letters of protest to South Dakota governor Carl Gunderson, who had previously signed the creation of the Mount Rushmore National Memorial Association into law, and swayed him against the project.[16] Through that effort, Gunderson reportedly regretted signing the legislation into law and used his influence to halt the project until William J. Bulow replaced him as governor in 1927;[2][16] construction began in August 1927.[2]" I just added that last clause to spell out that it started then. Was there another bit you was struggling to find?--Launchballer 15:44, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]