Talk:Conservative People's Party of Estonia

Merger

People's Union of Estonia changed its name and symbolics. Members of Estonian Patriotic Movement joined the party. Ideology has changed a lot, but Conservative People's Party of Estonia is actually the same thing as People's Union of Estonia. Ivo (talk) 22:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Closing for lack of support over 2.5 years; case isn't clear as it was a merge between two former parties, rather than the continuation of one party. Klbrain (talk) 21:25, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

This is the truth - the old Collective Farms(Kolkhoz) Chairmen party aka People's Union party was founded on the 29th of September 1994 and was only renamed in 2012(after 1999), because the Russian Patriotic Movement was not even a party, because they did not manage to find 1000 members that was required by the law. So they only changed the old communist party name to "Conservative" Party and lied to the whole public and the media about merging together(which i already said that was impossible, because there only was 1 party). You can use Google translate on this page if you dont believe it - https://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eesti_Konservatiivne_Rahvaerakond#Ajalugu . And here is the official required-by-the-courts report/protocol about the name change from their own website - https://web.archive.org/web/20120513133951/http://ekre.ee/eestimaa-rahvaliidu-21-kongressi-protokoll/ . And here you can read about the old Collective Farms(Kolkhoz) chairmen - http://www.lounaleht.ee/index.php?page=1&id=9434 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.129.107.214 (talk) 14:46, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

The article needs more accuracy, not cherry picking!

Neutrality is required and selecting information in a negative sense is to reflect a certain handpicked minority viewpoint WP:CHERRYPICKING . By selecting for example two sources to pander a a preferred position, is not precise and adequate ex. to label a party Far-Right and taking advantage of the alarmist frame of reference. Simplistic labelling is not appropriate and misrepresents the idea that WIKIPEDIA articles should fairly represent all significant viewpoints WP:WEIGHT. Editors should take heed of avoiding at all cost the fatal dependence on opinion piece articles from preferred journalists and stating them as facts WP:YESPOV,  WP:NOTOPINION. When a statement is an opinion (a matter which is subject to dispute) it should be attributed to the source that offered the opinion using inline-text attribution -  WP:ASSERT. Also avoid falling in the trap of  WP:SYN i.e. Synthesis of published material that advances a position.  

Failure to respect the above mentioned, often violates other Wikipedia's policies and guidelines:

• WP:NPOV (policy): Neutral point of view, by selectively presenting one point of view from a source that actually includes two or more that conflict with each other
• WP:OR (policy): No original research, by presenting a statement not supported by any source, not even the cited sourcing
• WP:UNDUE (policy): Not giving undue weight to a view, by omitting information that shows that it is relatively unimportant
• WP:SOAP: Some topics, particularly those concerning current affairs and politics, may stir passions and tempt people to "climb soapboxes" (for example, passionately advocate their pet point of view), Wikipedia is not the medium for this.
• WP:PROMOTION : Advocacy, propaganda, or recruitment for any political view point, be it nationalist or antinationalist

Activists, like all editors, must understand the fundamental importance of "Five pillars" and must be very careful of not falling in to the partisanship cycle. Value-laden labels WP:LABEL may express contentious opinion and are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources, which not wholeheartedly the spirit this article. So please, no Wikipedia:Propaganda & Wikipedia:No holy wars and try to imagine yourself in your opponents shoes before using verbally violent epithets, such as; facist, racist, sodomite or Far-right extremist.

By trying to write for the opponent you allow yourself to edit an article from the perspective of a viewpoint opposed to your own. By doing so, you can sharpen and apply your neutral point of view editing skills.

Reflecting a more balance content, when describing the Conservative People's Party of Estonia, is easily observed in a wider sample of articles and in the different WIKIPEDIA language editions. None of them label the party as "Far-right". It would be more in a agreement with widely held estimations of EKRE, that it is a: Nationalist conservative party. I know that for many activists with certain political inclinations the before mentioned simply means; Far-right, Fascist, Racist extremist. I beg to differ, which I also believe reflects the established view of the issue. So let's restrain our political emotions, because at the end of the day Neutrality is the aim of the game. RudiLefkowitz (talk) 14:41, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

ps. This is how the party views itself:

The Estonian Conservative People’s Party is founded on the continuity of the Republic of Estonia and its Constitution, and it unites people who fight for the nation state, social cohesion and democratic principles. 

The activities of the Conservative People’s Party are based on three fundamental values:

• Endurance of the Estonian values, based on support for the language, culture, education, family, traditions and national economy
• Participation society of equal opportunities, where open, honest and democratic governance allows all citizens to reach fulfilment and get involved in politics
• Socially and regionally balanced development and wellbeing that are guaranteed by a fair and strong state by implementing caring and knowledge-based policies and by developing an ecologically sustainable living environment.The Conservative People’s Party with its nearly 7,800 members is the fourth largest party in Estonia. (SOURCE: The Estonian Parliamentary website http://www.riigikogu.ee/en/parliament-of-estonia/factions/conservative-peoples-party-estonia-faction/)

EKRE being accused in extremism or fascism, for Martin Helme, is an insult. He says there’s no evidence of them supporting fascism and the extremism accusations are just that the new political rhetoric is unfamiliar as yet. «The mainstream has become so orthodox, so narrow, that whatever is not immaculately, diligently, fervently more-catholic-than-pope mainstream is immediately labelled extremism,» parries Mr Helme. (http://news.postimees.ee/3127159/ekre-from-club-status-to-parliament-rank
)

@RudiLefkowitz: You need to stop removing the political position. You are constantly deleting the information and replacing it with an ideology (which are already included above under "ideology"). An ideology is not a political position on the political spectrum. You need to see the difference between those two. As you do this repeatedly, it becomes a issue of vandalism! Use the talk page before you continue these efforts. Without consensus your version will never be stable. And from what i see above, there appear to be a WP:Conflict of interest on your part. Dnm (talk) 22:52, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

I added sources below: Radical right, as requested on my Talk page. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:13, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Radical right

Please see the sources that describe the party as right-wing:

• "right wing radical national organisation" in The Baltic States: The National Self-Determination of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania edited by Graham Smith.

• "radical right populist party" in Right-Wing Populism in Europe: Politics and Discourse edited by Ruth Wodak, Majid KhosraviNik, Brigitte Mral

And these are just a couple among many link. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:41, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

There have been 2 parties with that name in Estonia, current one (established 2012) and other in 90s. Many links (including Graham Smith) do not refer to current political party. --Minnekon (talk) 01:13, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

The Wodak source does -- it describes the 2012 party. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:19, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Conservative People's Party of Estonia/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sunshineisles2 (talk · contribs) 06:31, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Infobox

• Each of the descriptors in the "ideology" column should have a reference attached to them. If you can't find one for a particular ideology, it is best to remove it from the column until a citation is located.

Lead

• Current chairman of the party is Mart Helme, — That is a very abrupt sentence start.
• Its identitarian youth — How does the author know it is identitarian? CN.
• responsible for the frequent nationalist torchlight marches in Estonia. — Two things here. One, there should be a source, such as a news article documenting one of these torch marches. Two, this might not be the best place to introduce that information. On English Wikipedia, it's safe to assume that many readers won't be familiar with the torchlight marches, and therefore this isn't a useful point of reference.
• suggest other ways of looking at the left–right axis — "Other ways" is very vague.
• The party was founded in March 2012 when the agrarian centrist party People's Union of Estonia and the nationalist pressure group Estonian Patriotic Movement merged. — In the "history" section of the article, there is a reference for this claim. It should appear earlier on, otherwise it feels like an unsourced assumption.
• it had around 7600 members, being the fourth largest — "being the fourth largest" is awkward in this context.
• its main struggle — This non-neutral text.
• supporting young Estonian families, reducing emigration of Estonians abroad, fighting immigration from outside of the EU — This is copied verbatim from the source and should be rephrased.
• It is also eurosceptic and wishes to implement Swiss-style direct democracy. — Citation needed.

Background

• Modern Estonian nationalism dates back to the Singing Revolution that led to the end of Soviet occupation in Estonia — Citation needed.
• as well as the Central Union of Estonian Nationalists that was active in the 1990s. — Citation needed.

History

• In 2010, the People's Union of Estonia started to look for a possible merging partner. — Why? Further context necessary.
• Talks with the Social Democratic Party were concluded and a special congress was convened to approve the merger agreement — Further context, or at least a citation, is useful.
• social democrats. — The party is a proper noun – "joined the Social Democrats" or some variant thereof would be more appropriate for this usage.
• became an extra-parliamentary party. — Does this just mean that the party was not in parliament? If so, only the first half of the sentence is needed.
• After the election, Margo Miljand, the leader of the People's Union met with Mart Helme who had run as an independent candidate. — This sentence is clunky. It should be split up.
• At the assembly in Põltsamaa, where the party was founded, EKRE made its first political statement — Including the entire text of the statement seems a bit unnecessary. If you feel it is needed, it should be a block quote.
• Madison is now the vice chairman of the European Union Affairs Committee of the parliament — It would be helpful to explain how Madison went from getting the party excluded from coalition talks for Nazi sympathizing to becoming the Assembly's Vice Chair of the EU Committee.

Blue Awakening

• a new national awakening of the Estonians — This is non-neutral text.
• an eternal Estonian ethno-state. — See above.
• The movement is disciplined — What is meant by "disciplined"?

Ideology

• The party's platform generally reflects Estonian national conservatism in the Estonian political system. — This sentence isn't needed, and is more than reiterated, with citations, immediately afterward.
• that the new political rhetoric is unfamiliar as yet — This wording does not make sense.
• The party calls for implementation of direct democracy, — Citation needed.

Social policies

• The party strongly opposes the widespread closure of schools in countryside — Citation needed.
• health care must create preconditions for the preservation of the Estonian nation — What does this mean? Phrasing unclear.
• demography is one of the most crucial aspects in the survival of Estonia. — A more specific word, like ethnicity or heritage, would be far preferable in this context.
• Estonia is in a demographic crisis — non-neutral text.
• especially in the light of the EU Commission plans to distribute the immigrants — Very clunky phrasing.
• if the liberal government allows immigration to alter the ethnic makeup of Estonia, it is scandalous and undemocratic — non-neutral text.
• the party insists on the parliament — Very clunky phrasing.
• EKRE also claimed — Should be phrased in present or passive tense ("EKRE has claimed" or "EKRE claims").
• The party promises in its platform to put the law on a referendum. — Also could be re-worded ("The party proposes a referendum...").
• The party program includes right of the citizens to initiative — Also could be re-worded. ("The party program includes support of the right of citizens to create initiatives").
• EKRE supports presidential elections by the public — Try "public presidential elections".
• The party wants to abolish D'Hondt method from the parliamentary elections — Explain what system is proposed to replace it.

Economic policies

• The party program states that the development of the market must serve the national interest. — Specification needed. This is broad, vague terminology which obscures more than it educates.

Environment

• the untouched natural beauty of Estonia — Non-neutral text.
• Therefore, the party supports alternative and environment-friendly sources of energy — Are there any examples you could provide?

Foreign and defense policies

• Estonia's independence and sovereignty. — From a purely legal standpoint, Estonia is an independent, sovereign state. When they call for this, what do they mean? Specification needed.
• Green is territory that EKRE claims is illegally occupied by Russia — Is not a helpful caption. All of Russia, as depicted in the picture, is also in green.
• it believes that the union has to overgo a drastic change. — It would help to describe some of the changes that are proposed by the party, beyond the ethnopluralistic alliance described. Also, "overgo" is not a word".
• strongly limit the amount of bureucracy in the EU — Bureaucracy is misspelled, and furthermore there is no explanation of what bureaucratic errors the party wishes to eliminate.
• "just as democratic country as Russia" — This quote is horribly phrased and should not be in the article. Instead, a summary would suffice.
• The EKRE concept of the national defence policy — An alternate phrasing, like "the EKRE's proposed national defence policy", would read better.
• based on the self-reliant national defence. — This sentence, when put together with the previous note, essentially reads "the EKRE's national defence policy is based on national defence". This should be reworded to highlight what "self-reliance" means in this context.
• existence of initial defense — "Defense" is spelled differently than it was before. Additionally, there is no explanation of what "initial [defence]" means.
• his alt-right supporters — There should be a citation from a reliable source which establishes Trump and his supporters as "alt-right".
• Trump is right to point out that needs to make a financial contribution — I have no idea what is trying to be said here.

References

• Every link that leads to a page in Estonian should be marked as such in the citation.
• Citation 2 is improperly formatted.
• Citation 6 is, according to the Copyvio Detector, quoted several times in the article without indication that it is text from another source. This is plagiarism, and must be marked as a quotation, rephrased, or removed entirely as soon as possible.
• Citations 34–36 and 38 redirect to a 404 page.
• Citations 21 and 48 are bare URLs.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Final thoughts

@DJ Sturm: This article should be extensively revised. While there are only a few central problems – original research, unoriginal text, dead URLs, non-neutral text – this is a fairly long article and to replace it to satisfaction will, to be honest, likely take longer than the seven days suggested by GA criteria. --Sunshineisles2 (talk) 19:04, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Center Party's tacit support.

The source mentions "võtta arvesse Keskerakonna veelgi suuremat vaikivat toetust EKRE seisukohtadele". How is that not an accurate summary for the claim "Estonian Center Party has been tacitly supporting EKRE"? I thought Estonian was the native language of Pelmeen10 (talk · contribs). (That the Estonian Center Party is a left-wing populist party is a widely known fact, e.g. [1]; nevertheless the article here is about EKRE so I'd be willing to compromise and leave it out).Miacek (talk) 11:44, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Faction’s

Should we add identitarism or even neo nazism due to Ruuben Kaalep and the Blue awakening? 176.72.89.93 (talk) 20:00, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Christian fundamentalism

Really? I highly doubt that there are any SGP-like parties in an extremely atheist country like Estonia Braganza (talk) 13:30, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Reducing ideologies to make it simple.

There is too many ideologies even for a most detailed wiki. so, I will make changes and leave these:

Direct democracy Estonian nationalism Right-wing populism Social conservatism Hard Euroscepticism

174.135.36.220 (talk) 01:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

suppport Braganza (talk) 06:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

You actually agree? Great, now we can simplifed the ideologies with our examples I provided. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 07:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

wait a bit Braganza (talk) 07:23, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Comment remove some categories too when you do it (after some other users gave their comments too): Utopian movements, Christian fundamentalist organizations in Europe, Christian nationalism in Europe, Anti-abortion organizations & Criticism of feminism Braganza (talk) 07:25, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Got it, but sometimes I removed references without even realizing it. I am trying to not get banned. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 14:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Scrap DD. HE and replace the nationalism and SCON with national conservatism, and I'll agree to it :) ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

National conservatism

Hard Euroscepticism

Right-wing ppopulism.

Now we can begin to edit. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 01:57, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

No to Euroscepticism, as it isn't an ideology, just a policy. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:51, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

National conservatism

Right-wing populism. 

Now we can begin to edit, for real this time. also, let remove some categories too.  174.135.36.220 (talk) 14:40, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

These are currently the categories:

Category:Political parties in Estonia Category:Conservative parties in Estonia Category:Political parties established in 2012 Category:2012 establishments in Estonia Category:Anti-immigration politics in Europe Category:Eurosceptic parties in Estonia Category:Nationalist parties in Estonia Category:National conservative parties Category:Right-wing populist parties Category:Member parties of the Identity and Democracy Party Category:Social conservative parties Category:Right-wing parties in Europe Category:Utopian movements Category:Organizations that oppose LGBT rights in Europe Category:Christian fundamentalist organizations in Europe Category:Christian nationalism in Europe Category:Anti-abortion organizations Category:Opposition to same-sex marriage in Europe Category:Criticism of feminism

I propose removing [[Category:Nationalist parties in Estonia]], [[Category:Social conservative parties]], [[Category:Utopian movements]], [[Category:Christian fundamentalist organizations in Europe]], [[Category:Christian nationalism in Europe]], [[Category:Anti-abortion organizations]]. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Let's begin editing! Still, it is a nationalist party, social conservative, christian nationalism and anti-abortion, let keep those while removing the rest. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 03:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I think removing those not relating to their ideology would be best. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 17:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Okay, let's begin editing the article, now. for real this time, and to help readers understand and not lose their understanding when reading. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 20:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

right-wing populism often includes Christian nationalism, imo "Christian nationalism" should focus on actual Christian right-nationalist parties Braganza (talk) 20:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

@ValenciaThunderbolt @Braganza, Let's begin editing the articles to make it simple this time. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 01:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

i would leave Category:Nationalist parties in Estonia though Braganza (talk) 09:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Final call? If no, then we can start editing. if yes, then what do we have before editing. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 22:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

No "yes" or "not yet". @ValenciaThunderbolt, maybe we should start editing the article. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 04:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Will do soon :) ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 15:14, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@ValenciaThunderbolt, ready to edit now? >:), to make the article more simple and understanding. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 23:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

I've got other things to do, so you might best ask someone else, like @Baganza:. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 08:49, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Bagzana, let begin editing the articles! 174.135.36.220 (talk) 01:08, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Calling everyone who can edit. We need help here. 174.135.36.220 (talk) 04:50, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Good news @ValenciaThunderbolt and @Braganza. @Pecora11914 and @ Isaidnoway have edited the page to make it simple! 174.135.36.220 (talk) 05:30, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

alright Braganza (talk) 05:39, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

✋🏿 (Internet Five!). 'Cause we did it! 174.135.36.220 (talk) 06:33, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

you should create an account btw Braganza (talk) 07:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Why? 174.135.36.220 (talk) 07:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

you would appear more reliable Braganza (talk) 16:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)