Talk:Comus

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 September 2020 and 11 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ElizabethNguyen1. Peer reviewers: Savanna Fillmore, DDugan2021.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Citations?

I see no references to any classical Greek god Comus in Perseus, Greek Mythology Link, or any other respected source. Are you sure this isn't just the Greek WORD "comus," (party), adapted into a personified god by John Milton? The total lack of citations on this article doesn't allay my suspicions about it being a complete fabrication. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Randy Blackamoor (talk • contribs) 16:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I recall reading in footnote in the Loeb edition of Nonnos' Dionysiaca that Comus was indeed a late personification. Much earlier than Milton, obviously, but probably not a classical "god" in the sense that we typically think of when talking about Greek religion. Also the notion of Bacchus as "purely intoxicated" contrasted to "Comus was a god of excess" and the lack of classical (or any) citation strikes me as extremely odd. This whole stub is highly dubious, and I would suggest deletion unless something substantial can be produced. 76.180.182.198 (talk) 23:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Son of Dionysus

@Sweetpool50: Comus being the son of Dionysus in Greek mythology is not the same as an English poet inventing for him the parentage of Bacchus and Circe. Anyone reading the lead would assume that the article is stating he is a son of Dionysus in Greek mythology, because the preceding sentence begins with In Greek mythology, and the sentence which follows states that His mythology occurs only in later antiquity, with the sentence in which the claim is made not giving any indication that the information comes from anywhere other than Greek mythology. In addition, we should not be citing this claim to Smith, whose entry on Comus makes no mention of Dionysus (and citing the claim to the "Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology" also only reinforces the idea that this parentage occurs in Greek mythology). – Michael Aurel (talk) 11:31, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My edit was in response to your summary "I can't find a source calling him the son of Dionysus" since it struck me that you hadn't looked very hard. I found a lot, although I'm not sure who is copying who there. I checked Milton's masque, where Comus is quoted as son of Bacchus, the Latin equivalent of Dionysos. All I could find on Comus in Smith is "god of festive mirth and joy, represented as a winged youth, occurs only in the later times of antiquity." My main interest in the article chiefly centres on his appearance in art and literature, and getting rid of "in popular media" lists. Anyway, I found a source and don't doubt that there are others. The claim goes back to soon after the article was created in 2004 and should be granted a more diligent search for a source. Sweetpool50 (talk) 13:44, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thanks for clarifying where you were coming from with your reversion. When I said I can't find a source calling him the son of Dionysus, I meant that I couldn't find any ancient source recording this parentage, or any modern scholarly work on Greek mythology which mentions this parentage; because the article is about a figure in Greek mythology, I assumed the claim that he was a son of Dionysus was based upon something stated by an ancient Greek or Roman author, not a later reimagining of the figure. For context, I came to this article as part of redoing and sourcing the offspring tables for the Olympians (in this case: [1]), and did check about 10 reliable reference works on Greek mythology before removing the parentage here (and at the table), which I think qualifies as a "diligent search". Do you know of any sources other than Milton which say that Comus was a son of Dionysus? (I can't quite tell from your comment: you seem to say you found "a lot", but then later that you only found Milton?) If so, then we can add them to the article; if not, then I think what I said above holds, and we should remove the claim from the lead (or you could replace it with a statement of what Milton says). – Michael Aurel (talk) 15:21, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first site I found was Theoi, which is generally reliable. I notice, however, that none of the ancient authors cited mentions the fact. One of the early editors of the article back in 2004/5 was Bishonon, who did not demur. I don't think we ever talked, but he did to fellow editors of mine over the years. The procedure now, I think, is to appeal to fellow Classical editors who might be able to help. Sweetpool50 (talk) 16:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Theoi.com is most definitely not a reliable source. It is not written by a scholar on the subject, and does not come from any sort of reliable publisher, simply being a website made by one person; I can assure you, having removed problematic information in our articles originating from Theoi numerous times, that its pages range from somewhat probematic to being downright hodgepodges (eg. [2]). I removed an unsourced piece of information from the article, having done so after checking numerous sources, including exhaustive works such Brill's New Pauly, Smith, and Pauly-Wissowa. It is not incumbent upon me to ask more editors to help me do further scouring; rather, the WP:BURDEN is on you to provide a reliable source, as you were the one who readded the information to the article. If you would like to ask other editors for help in finding a reliable source for the claim, then that's fine, but unless we have such a source, the information should not be in the article. – Michael Aurel (talk) 17:29, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As no sources have emerged, either here or at the WT:CGR discussion, [3] I've removed the claim again. It should not be added back unless sourced. – Michael Aurel (talk) 03:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]