Talk:Colony of Liberia

Infobox

The infobox originally included in this page is both incomplete and includes either incorrect, misrepresentative, or unnecessary information. For example, the flag provide is not incorrect, but it was the flag for the colony from 1827 to 1848. That needs to be listed, as it was not the flag for the entire existence of the colony, and there is no other place in the article in which that information fits. Likewise the capital of the colony was indeed Monrovia, but the first capital of the colony was Christopolis, the original name for Monrovia. Again, having "Monrovia" as the capital is, of course, not incorrect, but if the infobox is going to include the capitals of the colony, "Christopolis" needs to be included, as "Monrovia" was not the only capital of the colony. Importantly, too, the infobox doesn't clearly separate the information for the "Colony of Liberia" from the information for the "Commonwealth of Liberia"—two separate political entities—except for their years of existence at the top. The issue is that the so-called "Colony of Liberia" only really existed until 1839, after which it became the "Commonwealth of Liberia." This is made clear, but it is not made clear in the information—that Joseph Jenkins Roberts, for example, was the governor of the Commonwealth of Liberia, not the Colony of Liberia. The same goes for Thomas Buchanan. We need to figure out some way to make that clear in the infobox if we intend to include that information therein. This, I suppose, is one of the central problems with this article as a whole. I agree that the colony that was known as Liberia, that existed before the Republic of Liberia, needs a page of its own beyond that of the republic. But the Colony of Liberia and the Commonwealth of Liberia are different things, and including them in a single article with a title that doesn't differentiate between the two is a major problem. The Colony of Liberia—that is, with a capital "C"—stopped existing in 1839. So to use "Colony of Liberia" for an article that includes the Commonwealth of Liberia" is misleading and problematic. The last thing is that neither the Colony of Liberia nor the Commonwealth of Liberia had an ISO code. So why is the modern ISO code for the Republic of Liberia, a completely separate and still extant political entity, listed in this infobox? If that information cannot be removed, then we need to create a new infobox from scratch. In short, I feel like this article has been rushed and needs to be vetted, structured, and discussed far more before it can go active. Anwegmann (talk) 03:03, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Colony of Liberia (1821–1839) Commonwealth of Liberia (1839–1847)
1821–1847
Flag (1827–1847)
Capital and largest city	Christopolis (1821–1824) Monrovia (1824–1847)
Official languages	English
Demonym(s)	Liberian
Government	Private Colony of the ACS
Colonial Agents and Governors
• 1821–1839	See List (Colonial Agents)
• 1839–1841	Thomas Buchanan (Governor)
• 1841–1847	Joseph Jenkins Roberts (Governor)
Currency	United States Dollar (USD)
Preceded by Succeeded by Mississippi-in-Africa Kentucky-in-Africa Republic of Liberia Republic of Maryland
Today part of	Liberia

@Anwegmann: I took the infobox from this revision, I've been looking at your criticism above and wonder what more is missing, perhaps we can draft it here. Perhaps adding preceding colonies answ native tribes. --Donald Trung (talk) 10:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Propose to inactivate this page and make a draft

I just read through the entire page several times, trying to smooth out some of the information and provide some context, and I have realized that this page is almost entirely copied from American Colonization Society and has no real independent context. I appreciate the work those of you have done to create the page, which is needed and welcomed. But it is so incomplete and based around another page's timeline, structure, and context that it is functionally useless as it stands right now. So I propose that we inactivate this page, create a draft, and work on it on its own merits, including the proper context and independent structure that will make it a valuable and indeed needed addition to Wikipedia. As it stands now, though, it is rushed, incomplete, lacking in context, episodic, and haphazard on the whole and requires far more work and discussion than just cleanup and smoothing. I am pinging @Onceinawhile:, as it seems they were the admin involved in the creation of the page. (My apologies if this is not correct. If it is not, would you mind pointing me in the right direction?) I am also pinging @Snowded:, an experience admin who has worked on colonial pages. Anwegmann (talk) 03:51, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for this and your comments above. Personally I think we will get more eyes if we leave the page here, particularly given the fact that it covers an important topic. Your concerns are well founded - rather than draftifying would you be comfortable pulling all the text that you are unsure about onto this talk page for discussion? To my mind there is more than enough of a strong and properly sourced core here. The essay User:Paul_012/Drafts are broken sets out some of the objections to drafts which I share. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:26, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

@Onceinawhile: Solid idea. I agree that the core is solid. The infobox is my main concern, as it is very rough and more than a bit misleading. I will copy the sections of the body content onto this page that I think can be improved and do my best to explain the issues with them as well as try to provide a reworking to the best of my ability for discussion. Thanks, again, for the reply. I do think that the infobox needs to be removed until we can get it in properly in order, as I believe it is doing more damage than good as it stands right now. Thanks, again. Anwegmann (talk) 18:08, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Anwegmann, that sounds perfect. FYI the infobox had been around for a long time, but perhaps hadn't been seen so widely when placed towards the bottom of the ACS article (see [1]). Onceinawhile (talk) 18:27, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

@Anwegmann I read through your reasons why the Infobox is messed up and I agree. Maybe there should be a separate page for the Commonwealth of Liberia. Another issues are the colonies set up by the individual state colonization societies. Where do they fit in on all this? Kanto7 (talk) 08:07, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Investigation of copyright - looks like whole article copy pasted from a few location including here and a few others https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&title=Colony+of+Liberia&oldid=&action=search&use_engine=1&use_links=1&turnitin=0

Look I didn't make this article. I only created it. All complaints should go to Onceinawhile. Kanto7 (talk) 07:28, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

You made this page as a reference-less sentence and then explicitly asked Onceinawhile to turn it into an actual article. It is unbecoming to deflect all responsibility to them. CMD (talk) 17:14, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Ok Kanto7 (talk) 21:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedy deleted as an unambiguous copyright infringement, because... (your reason here) --Kanto7 (talk) 07:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

No

This contestation doesn't state a reason or a defense. Anwegmann (talk) 18:53, 3 January 2021 (UTC)