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Balzan wrong climate data

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The climate data of Balzan is plainly wrong. The only source referring to it said "averages since 1985" but it didn't change in years, so that means that probably it's using a very short term of data while there is an official station available, Luqa airport.

The source is dead as well from a lot of time ago. That same page, Malta Weather, now says this about the climate of Malta.[1] "the average year round temperature is 18-19ºC, the sun hours are close to 3.000h" but they deleted any leftover of their Balzan data, giving me to think that it was either false information or non-viable information. Malta has already 2 climate boxes with the only official station on the island (Luqa airport) and I think that with this one is enough, as the other one can't be proven as real/official station. --TechnicianGB (talk) 23:46, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong data? Why? In my opinion these data are very likely and connect to the evolution of climate change in Malta, see historical data of 1961-1990 and 1981-2010. You wrote: "probably it's using a very short term of data" - this is your private guess, between 1985 and 2015 there are 30 years, this is the same than 1961-1990 and 1981-2010. By the way, for me the most reliable data to the averages is the last 20 years (1997-2017), period from '80 to 1995 has little in common with the current climate, so data from 1981-2010 is half of outdated. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 12:23, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Subtropical-man: The source which is using, that MaltaWeather website is a died url and it's just an archived page, so we don't know how many years of average are those.[2] We don't even know their sources, as if you look for example they don't say from where they take their data. Actually Malta hasn't got any official station in Balzan, and if you Google it, you only find an AccuWeather report for Balzan or a Wunderground private station, so that's not useful data at all. And this Wunderground station is not even remotely 30 years old.

In fact now this own website (MaltaWeather) they wrote that Malta's average temperature is 18-19ºC[3], they deleted those Balzan stats and yet changed it by this information which you can see here: http://www.maltaweather.com/malta_climate.asp The official Maltese weather station is the one from Luqa, approved by NOAA standards and offers 1981-2010 data, as well as older years.[4] --TechnicianGB (talk) 05:01, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • You wrote: "The source which is using, that MaltaWeather website is a died url and it's just an archived page, so we don't know how many years of average are those" - it does not matter that the page is archived, Wikipedia allows the use of archived sources. And also, how many years of average are those? - well, it's a minus but that does not mean that you should insinuate about short period. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 19:34, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Did I say if matters that it's an archieved page? No. I said that they deleted it from their own website to add another information, as well as something saying "The average annual temperature in Malta is 18-19ºC" just like I shown you the source above. This one: http://www.maltaweather.com/malta_climate.asp so automatically the alarms bell is ringing, why they would delete "factual" data from one day to another. Maybe because it's data which can't be backed up with anything else? Or better said, a mere invention? --TechnicianGB (talk) 08:35, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Many websites are removed, even from official governmental pages, so?!? Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 17:02, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You wrote: "We don't even know their sources, as if you look for example they don't say from where they take their data" - no, you wrong. Source show it, I quote: "The following is the table of averages measured at the Balzan Malta Weather Station, located in the central part of Malta" and bellow: "NOTE: These figures are an average of records from the Balzan Malta Weather Station since 1985". Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 19:34, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Then i'm right, and you're saying it right now. I said that they don't say from where they take their data. Yet you said me that they "extract it from the Balzan Weather Station". But they don't provide any link to prove this data. Usually so old stations are impossible to be private, either because in the 80s this actual Internet era didn't exist, either because they're not spotted by the Official Met office, and the official met office of Malta is not speaking about an official station in Balzan. I can also write in a website some 1990- stats for my climate and to say "data extracted from the Altea Weather Station" yet if I don't put any proof / source it's like if it's 0. --TechnicianGB (talk) 08:35, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not all data must be available on the Internet. maltaweather.com could get data as a file from Balzan station or even maltaweather.com maybe be owner of the station. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 17:07, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You wrote: "Actually Malta hasn't got any official station in Balzan" - generally, it's just your guess. Even "official" Luqa Airport show climatical data from several sub-stations in Maltese archipelago [5]. It also does not matter if there is government's station or not. This may be a private meteorological station. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 19:34, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I know. But those "sub-stations" are official Maltese stations, but only observatory stations, not ones compiling long averages. For example in Spain, AEMET offers about 800 observatory stations. http://www.aemet.es/es/eltiempo/observacion Yet historical averages are only offered by less than 100. I'm not sure why Malta hasn't got another official station with historical temps but in their official website of the Maltese Met Office, there isn't any trace of this, but only the observatory stations ... So no, it's not my guess but exactly the factual data. It might be a private station, but surely not working from 1985. And that "Malta Weather" website could spend some seconds to put their source, but it seems that they didn't have from where to extract those numbers to back up them with a factual station. Anyways, private stations haven't got the standard certifications and they can be bad placed, direct a near source of heat, between walls which block the cold/hot winds and many more things. If you see at the Wunderground stations in Malta, the majority of them show pretty unreal temperatures compared to the airport, which is exactly as it happens in my locale and practically anywhere else in Europe. Those are stations with no certifications, and in this case Luqa is the official station, so that one must prevail. We can use private stations if we don't have another source, but in this case as having Luqa and without being able to back up Balzan ... I think it's clear. --TechnicianGB (talk) 08:35, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your assumptions, presumptions, suppositions are just assumptions, presumptions, suppositions. And also original research. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 17:12, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You wrote: "The official Maltese weather station is the one from Luqa" - Luqa is main weather station, but not the only one. Wikipedia may show data from several stations if such data exists. I do not see any problem.
  • PS. Please do not use < ref > in talk page, this generate problems. If you want add link, please use standard [ link ]. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 19:34, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I answered under each of your points to make it easier to read. Yes, but I propose to delete the "1985-" thing as it's clearly a short period of time (if that data is real) and the website which hosted that data deleted the own data by themselves, being something suspicious, isn't it? I agree to maintain it, but in the bottom of the climate charts and saying Balzan instead of Balzan 1985- ... Because we can't prove it. Regards --TechnicianGB (talk) 08:35, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You still have no evidence but just guesses. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 17:14, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]


@Subtropical-man: and where are the evidences saying that this Balzan is using the 1985-2015 period? Where are the evidences that this Balzan station is official, thus it's not mentioned anywherse in the Maltese met office? Where are the evidences for any other data of this station rather than an old archived page which got suddenly deleted one day? And even in this page, they don't link to the numbers/source from where they took those numbers. They just limit to write "Extracted from the weather station of Balzan" oh really? So where is that station exactly, how can I check if such a station exists and it's recorded temps? I can also make a website with invented averages and then I can put "Extracted from the weather station of X place" Exactly, you have to show the evidences to back up this data, as here I just used common sense and i'm talking about an archived source which never told from where their sources came from.

Not only for me, but using common sense this data looks very untrustworthy for something more than few years of data. In 5 years the temperatures won't change that much, this is not the Artic circle... Anyways, I said to leave it, but at the bottom, just where it is right now. --TechnicianGB (talk) 20:57, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Few years of data? This is a joke. You have no evidence or arguments or anything to your "few years" / "5 years", these are just your jokes. The problem is that you based on your own guesses. I understand if the climate data from the source differed significantly from the data from "official" Luqa airport station but however, after analysis can be said (based on historical data 1961-1990 and 1981-2010), these data are correct - these data do not stand out. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 22:30, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Subtropical-man: and again you didn't understand or read properly 2 times what I said. I said 5 years because the official averages are 1981-2010 and you claimed they are 1985-2015 with no evidence, as they just say (1985-) so first it's you who has to show evidence for that period of time and 2nd, I said 5 years more, which is the amount of time between 2010 and 2015 and 1980-1985 regarding to averages... --TechnicianGB (talk) 06:59, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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