Talk:Citoyenne Henri

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A fact from Citoyenne Henri appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 July 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Citoyenne Henri (illustration pictured) was only allowed to take a balloon trip with Andre-Jacques Garnerin after it was ruled that "there was no more scandal in seeing two people of different sexes ascend in a balloon than it is to see them jump into a carriage"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/July.

Wikipedia

Gender and grammar

Wouldn't it be more appropriate for this article--and the lady in question--to be titled "Citizeness Henri"? "Citoyenne" is the feminine form of the word "citizen" in French; compare the usage and the translation at La Citoyenne, a feminist newspaper of the 1800's. I seem to recall reading of other women who were called Citoyenne this or that during the period of the French Revolution, and in translation are traditionally called "Citizeness," but I can't think of a particular example at the moment.

Regardless of whether it would be politically correct in English-speaking countries at the present time, the distinction of male and female nouns & adjectives is still very much a feature of the French language today; and it seems to me that when referring to people from an earlier period we ought to respect the traditional usage, not impose a modern POV.

Furthermore, it seems completely improper and anglocentric to change the spelling of a last name from "Henri" to "Henry." There is no reason to change the spelling when using a name already written in a Roman alphabet. You can find the lady's name in its original form on the French Wikipedia at fr:André-Jacques Garnerin--Textorus 22:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I also can't think of any good reason for changing the last name from "Henri" to "Henry". I think that the article should be renamed. -- Asclepias 23:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was merely following the usage in the English language sources, which universally refer to her as Citizen Henry. Yomangani ^talk 23:22, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is moved now, with the translation noted. I haven't added the Citizeness as I haven't seen a single English source with her called that. Yomangani ^talk 23:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good job on changing the title. I finally remembered that the most famous example is the notorious Madame DeFarge in Charles Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities; she is routinely referred to as "Citizeness DeFarge." A google search turns up other examples. Appreciate your good work on this interesting article. :-) --Textorus 03:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actual name

Do we know this woman's actual name? "Citoyenne" sounds like a Revolutionary honorific, not a name. And if her surname was actually "Henri", then it seems very odd that some sources "translate" this to "Henry". So I'm guessing that neither "Citoyenne" nor "Henri" were part of her actual name. Is this correct? If so, the lede should clearly state that this is not her name -- because as it reads now, readers might think it is her name.

If we know her actual name, it should be stated. If not, it should be stated that her name has been lost to history. — Lawrence King ^(talk) 04:05, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

French Wikipedia says Célestine Henri. Anglicization of Henri as surname to Henry would be odd now, but not in 1798. Churchh (talk) 22:15, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]