Talk:Church music

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 23 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hannahelaine25.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

This is a welcome addition. Liturgical music should be merged here, Ambrosian chant, Old Roman chant and Beneventan chant should get links, and many more scattered articles. Category:Medieval music has many relevant articles. Part of the trouble is the categories are rather confused in this area. Johnbod (talk) 13:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Very good start. But there's a huge amount to do there if hymns are to be included. There's the calvinist-zwinglian hatred of hymns and exclusive psalmody. Catholic and Lutheran hymns. Methodism, Moody-Sankey, Salvation Army, Victorian hymns, Modern choruses, Taize, not to mention Greek and Russian Orthodox music, Caribbean, African and Latin American contributions. Tiring just thinking about it. Xandar 00:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

As a starter to expansion, I've slightly edited and shortened some text from the article Hymns, and placed it here with a link. Xandar 11:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I hated it. I mean whats up with the weird talky talk some people can't understand these things. Whatever. bye

I think there needed to include the instrumments used to perform.

Jewish and Christian music

A bit surprised to find so much on Jewish music in an article on Church music, since churches are a Christian institution. Perhaps its influence on Christian music could be stressed at the end/beginning of next section, as at the moment it seems very unconnected. If it cannot be connected, perhaps a 'see also' link is more appropriate.--Sabrebd (talk) 12:10, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Church music is not a church or even a type of church.

Church music is not a church or even a type of church. Church music is a type of Christian music. Church music is related to church, but so are many thousands of other things. tahc ^chat 04:25, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

@Tahc: But Category:Church is a category about the whole concept of church (you could include church culture, if such an article were to exist, and not just about buildings. Church music relates specifically to music within church and thus belongs in this category, unlike broader concepts like Christian music, which also covers music outside of a church context. I think any article which covers a topic specifically in a church context only should belong in a category about the concept of church. SFB 11:17, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

@Sillyfolkboy: Please stop adding Church music to Category:Church.

Right now Category:Church is covering the ideas of church buildings, local churches, larger church bodies, and the whole Church. These things are related but distict ideas-- and all are called "church" as a noun. Church music is not called called church as a noun and is not related to these other things as the other things are related to each other.

Adding Church music to Category:Church is WP:Overcategorization#Unrelated subjects with shared names. Just because Church music uses the word "church" doesn't make it part of "church." I am not sure how to reply to the comment about "church culture" because we already have Christian culture and I am sure "Christian culture" doesn't belong in Category:Church either. Is "church culture" supposed to be different from or the same as Christian culture?

Pews are in church buildings -- but we don't add that directly to "Church" because if we added all things that can be found in a church directly then "Category:Church" would have thousdans of articles and would be too big to be useful in finding things... this is called overcategorization. No one ever says "Where can I find an article about church music? -- I'll look in 'Church'."

Maybe you can add "Church music" to Category:Christian liturgies, since "Church music" seems about the same thing as Christian liturgy music. tahc ^chat 15:11, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

@Tahc: Pews is already in this category tree via "church architecture". Christian liturgies does not belong in the church category as it is exists outside of a church context. I believe church music is relevant to the church category because it deals with music specifically within the context of a church (as opposed to Christian music which deals with related music in and outside of a church environment).

I think all articles that deal with a topic specifically within a church context should be categorised under Category:Church, though I suppose that discussion is ongoing at the category page. On that basis, my tagging may be premature as the scope of Category:Church has not been agreed as "topics relating specifically to church (meaning the building, not the faith in general)". From my perspective at least, this isn't an extraordinary leap of logic. SFB 21:59, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

What does "within a church context" mean to you and how are "Christian liturgies" possbly "outside a church context" if church music is "within a church context"?

What ever it means to you "within a church context" is way to vaugue to be the basis for categorization (unless of course it can be called something else).

This whole disscussion seems to becoming moot. WP:CON at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_October_4#Category:Church seems to be that "Category:Church" will go bye bye. If "Category:Church" goes away then nothing will be in it. So I think this can wait until the CFD is over. tahc ^chat 22:15, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

True. I think we've also hit a barrier in that we cannot agree on the basic meaning of the word "context". On that basis we are both just wasting time. SFB 21:40, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Language variant

This morning I saw one edit that transformed several "international" spelling variants to American and the subsequent edit changed them back. I notice that there is no consistent spelling so I reverted, but I have restored that second edit as it has been a silent consensus for a while. This is a fully international spelling form of the article as it currently stands, while this is a fully American spelling. One of the earliest forms of the article used the international spelling (note "synagogues") and it seems that spelling has not been challenged, so I suggest we formalize international spelling. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:15, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

As the author of that second edit, of course I support this proposal.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 03:31, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

A one-sentence section

Natg 19 (talk · contribs) has created an entire section out of one sentence. While I agree that it does not flow well from the hymnody section, it is even worse to have it as it stands. Suggestions? Walter Görlitz (talk) 08:30, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I do agree that the section is very short as it is, but there is room for expansion about more modern forms of "church music". Natg 19 (talk) 09:01, 1 January 2021 (UTC)