Talk:China at the 2020 Summer Olympics

Why is China different?

I checked all the other Wikipedia pages for other countries in the 2020 Olympics.. All of them has (Medalists) on top chapter and (Competitors) below it. Australia, Serbia, Iran, Japan, America, etc all has that format. Only China is different. Am curious to know what rule makes China different from the rest. Tried to fix it but was reverted. Will try again and if you have a legitimate reason to revert it, explain here.49.195.39.151 (talk) 02:19, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Team Sports Summary

Sports	Women	Men
Basketball
3x3 Basketball	Bronze	8
Volleyball	9
Beach Volleyball	9 / 9
Football	11
Handball
Field Hockey	9
Water Polo
Rugby Sevens	7
Baseball - Softball

============

What's the rationale for putting this summary here? Yhy is China treated differently here? Does any other country have a summary for team sports? Since the page is now semi-protected, I am making the request for this section to be removed.

98.207.237.179 (talk)

NPOV tag

For reference (since the NPOV template encourages documentation here on the talk page): I tagged this article for NPOV concerns because of this blanket deletion of the entire article section reproduced below, by an editor who reasoned that political aspects are "off topic" - which seems in direct contradiction to the requirement that articles should represent "all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic" (regardless whether they are about political aspects or not). See the ongoing discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Olympics#Politics_section_at_China_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics.

Politics

Chinese diplomats engaged in wolf warrior diplomacy during the Olympics with issue being taken with the way Chinese athletes were being depicted by the media and by the Taiwanese team being introduced as “Taiwan" instead of Chinese Taipei. The Chinese consulate in New York City complained that NBC had used an inaccurate map of China in their coverage because it didn’t include Taiwan and the South China Sea. The consulate said that the map "created a very bad influence and harmed the dignity and emotion of the Chinese people." The consulate took to Twitter writing "Using a wrong map of #China is a real lack of common sense. Politicizing sports and violating the Olympics Charter spirits will only do harm to the #Olympic Games and the relationship between the #Chinese and the #Americans,"

Chinese diplomats took issue with CNN's coverage of China's first gold medal when it published a headline saying "Gold for China…and more COVID-19 cases".

A win by Taiwan over China in badminton increased tensions between the two countries. Tensions between China and Taiwan over the Olympics has also resulted in increased calls in Taiwan to rename their Olympic team.

On August 1 the Embassy of China, London criticized the BBC’s coverage of the Olympics, particularly its Taiwan related coverage. The embassy also condemned a News.com.au article cited by the BBC. The statement said that “The reports on the BBC Chinese website and news.com.au about the participation of ‘Chinese Taipei’ in Tokyo Olympics are unprofessional and severely misleading. The Chinese side is gravely concerned and strongly opposes this.” On August 4 the embassy again criticized the BBC’s coverage of Taiwan’s participation in the Olympics saying that a BBC article explaining the history of Taiwan’s Olympic moniker “Chinese Taipei” had been "sensationalizing the question of the 'Chinese Taipei' team at the Tokyo Olympics.” and went on to state "[China] strongly urges these media to follow international consensus and professional conduct, to stop politicizing sports, and to stop interference with the Tokyo Olympic games."

References

Regards, HaeB (talk) 22:50, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Also for reference. The editor who first added and wrote the whole Section later removed a paragraph (shown below) added by others and claimed it was an accident. The discussion still is ongoing here.

Chinese Vice Premier Sun Chunlan sent a congratulatory letter to the delegation after Yang Qian won the first gold of the delegation and the Games on 24 July.

References

Regards, --阿pp (talk) 05:14, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

@阿pp: its not entirely relevant but I would note that the state council is not a WP:RS in context nor does it establish WP:DUEWEIGHT. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill that should never have been made in the first place. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:53, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Medal tally source is contradicted by reality

@Fyunck(click) It's wrong to claim that state Media claim first in medal tally when there are still articles on their official site that clearly says they came second. It contradicts the edit as being false since why would China say they came first only on social media once but second on all their official newspaper articles?

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1230873.shtml

On social media, it is just much more casual. They are smart enough to know Hong Kong is separate from them Olympic rules wise, etc. They know they came second officially and understand the Olympic rules of NOCs. It's just satire where citizens understand the joke. And why there is a good reason why they allegedly put it on social media once but never on any of their actual news articles. .because it is not serious news. Instead on their current news website, they simply say they came second. The proof is the link above alone sufficiently contradicts the edit as being factually flawed.

Also the source is western tabloid that leaves out the fact that Chinese newspapers say they came second. But they never said it was their official stance or written on all their state media articles. The current edit makes it seem like all the Chinese newspapers are constantly claiming that as a fact when that is simply not true at all. Casualfoodie (talk) 12:06, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Do you have usable sources? The party tabloid Global Times is deprecated. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:46, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Also the source does not appear to be a tabloid, are you getting it confused with GT? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:49, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

https://huodong.weibo.cn/olympics2021/h5_medal? Here is the actual website of the table that is cited in the media. As we can see there's no proof that official state media has included HK, Taiwan etc as part of China in its medal table. Macau doesn't even have an Olympic committee that is recognized by the IOC so it doesn't make sense for them to include it. Social Media photoshops on Weibo don't count as official state media endorsement. If you believe otherwise, please provide proof this website actually contained them. Citing some western news websites doesn't mean anything since its seems they themselves didn't do proper due diligence seeing this contradiction.-210.6.154.28 (talk) 07:45, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Stop adding in inappropriate or false info and discuss first

Firstly stop putting in false information or inappropriate info and discuss here before adding it in. I already gave reasoning but will repeat it here so people can come and reply.

There is no consensus given to add in the politics section. This was already discussed extensively at the Olympic talk page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Olympics#Politics_section_at_China_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics

We could also put in the same section in Japan, America, etc today. And talk heavily for also many paragraphs about how their politicians talk about Simone Biles or joking about Holocaust. But all these are not in their pages. They all go to the Concerns and controversies at the 2020 Summer Olympics page where it belongs. Why is there such double standards for China where the exact info is copied twice and added both to their Olympic Wiki page and the Controversy page. Unless all countries follow that, it is simply not manual of style. ALSO the information has already been copied and moved to the appropriate page...

Below was one of the arguments by @Kaffe42

"A section about politics, controversies, criticisms and reception in the respective country could be added to the pages - but it probably shouldn't. See WP:CSECTION. There's the Concerns and controversies at the 2020 Summer Olympics, and most controversies and criticism should probably be directed there instead of on the individual countries' pages. The manual of style, while needing an update, is still what we should be following and there is no 'politics' section or anything like it on that."

Lastly the edit claiming that state run media claims China got first in the medal tally. That statement is contradicted by current China's articles saying they came second. (Link below)You simply cannot add in false flawed information after it's clearly debunked.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1230873.shtml Casualfoodie (talk) 12:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

That Global Times article from August 8 does not at all "debunk" the three cited reports which date from more than a week later (and also refer to other state-run media).

As for the argument by Kaffe42 that you quote, I had already explained in that discussion that it is a serious misinterpretation of WP:CSECTION, which actually explicitly recommends "Reception" type sections, in direct contradiction to Kaffe42's claim. I find it quite surprising that you are still reproducing it here without taking that into account.

As for the argument that we can delete content from this page because it is covered in some other page, this goes against NPOV too, see the warning against POV forking under WP:SPINOFF.

As for whataboutism arguments about other countries: If, say, the United States government insisted on having all Canadian medals added to the US team's tally, and reliable sources reported on this, then that would surely be a noteworthy addition to United States at the 2020 Summer Olympics.

Regards, HaeB (talk) 17:22, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

https://huodong.weibo.cn/olympics2021/h5_medal? Here is the actual website of the table that is cited in the media. As we can see there's no proof that official state media has included HK, Taiwan etc as part of China in its medal table. Macau doesn't even have an Olympic committee that is recognized by the IOC so it doesn't make sense for them to include it. Social Media photoshops on Weibo don't count as official state media endorsement. If you believe otherwise, please provide proof this website actually contained them. Citing some western news websites doesn't mean anything since its seems they themselves didn't do proper due diligence seeing this contradiction.-210.6.154.28 (talk) 07:38, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

I don’t know if you've noticed but thats a Weibo link right there. Not a WP:RS. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 13:43, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes and the articles are citing the table from this website. You're basically allowing sources that don't even have valid data anymore. At the very least none of these 3 articles can be considered valid and they should be replaced with better sources. Even this Taiwan News website claims its not state media but Chinese Netizens making this fantasy table. So that's already making the accuracy of those 3 articles questionable alone. -210.6.154.28 (talk) 13:58, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

The two sources don’t contradict each other, both the media and netizens may have done the same thing. What you need here is a reliable source which directly states that the other source incorrectly reported the story, unless you have that theres almost no point in having this discussion. That being said I don’t know about that last sentence being in the lead, I don’t love it and I would cut the sourcing down to just Yahoo Sports. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:41, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

If we are going to leave sourcing at Yahoo Sports, we should rename "China state media" to "China Central Television" in that sentence as its the only one reporting the revised medal count per the article.

That said, the article itself is confusing and not clearly written. It states "China Central Television" sent out a revised table only changing gold. Then in the next sentence it mentions Netizens including Macau in the medal count. The sentence has major issues since 1.Macau isn't a participant of the Olympics so it has no medals and 2. 42+37+27= 106, not 110. So already inaccuracy right here. Finally the picture in between those 2 sentences mentioned above, is supposed to be evidence of the table that China Central Television issued. Yet it matches the description of the second sentence of Netizens including Macau and the full medal count (except total which they calculated wrong)

Basically that Yahoo Sports article itself seems to have contradictions and poor quality control. Therefore a better source is needed. -210.6.154.28 (talk) 15:33, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

One more thing I just realized. That revised Medal Table has 42 Gold Medals. How did they even get that? Taiwan has 2 Golds and HK has 1 Gold. The final Gold Medal score should be 41 not 42! Even something like Chinese State Media wouldn't have published something that incorrect which can be called out instantly. How come all these reliable websites used as sources didn't even check that glaring error? This site really makes me doubt the credibility of all this. -210.6.154.28 (talk) 04:30, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Not sure why [1] makes you "doubt the credibility of all this". It predates the three sources that are currently cited in the article about this issue, and is entirely consistent with them, e.g. [2] refers to "Images circulating on Chinese social media which have also been shown by Chinese state-run media." And your argument that these Chinese state-run media could never have published incorrect information and that we must therefore assume that the three cited news publications have published incorrect information is not very convincing. Regards, HaeB (talk) 09:10, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

So why 42 gold medals? Can you tell me how you can reach that figure? Why can't their table match with the same source ? Also why are we allowing a source from Republic World? Wikipedia itself has stated: "Critical reception has been negative. The channel has been accused of practicing biased reporting in favour of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and stifling dissent; fake news and Islamophobic rhetoric were published on multiple occasions." You really going to let this slide? -210.6.154.28 (talk) 14:58, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Just a screenshot of a supposed state-media in all those supposed news links does not sound like conclusive proof especially given how easily the image could be photoshopped given modern day software. I would like to see link to an actual state-media site that shows the medal tally that way, especially as you are claiming it's a state-media source. Not to mention the incorrect information like 42 gold medals, Macau participating when it didn't suggesting it came from an amateur source. Not to mention the website from annielab claimed clearly Chinese officials acknowledged US came first. Torrent56 (talk) 21:10, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

I also don't understand why you claim the annielab doesn't show the medal tally is incorrect. In fact, it even showed in a comparison the doctored table and the correct table from the site. It also showed clearly where the doctored medal tally came from originally. It looks like someone doctored an image using the state-media medal tally format and passed it off as such. Torrent56 (talk) 21:46, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

European Union on every Olympics does the very same thing by grouping Eu countries and show their total. It doesn't mean it no longer recognises NOCs or Olympic standards. Even the social media post itself doesn't even write it's their official way of counting. In fact, there is very little information given by the screenshot social media post, to indicate that they now will forever reject Olympic standards. Which is a big deal if true. WesternChristianitytestballi (talk) 16:44, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

A vague social media post is not really enough proof that is their official and only stance. That would be an unprofessional amount of speculation and cannot be relying on an outsider opinion piece to interpret a small social media post (that even got the medal total count wrong). Is there a single Chinese official source or clear enough announcement made on international Media that can confirm that China as of 2021 no longer recognises team Hong Kong and Taiwan as separate NOCs to 'China NOC? There really should be a clear global announcement if such major facts was true. WesternChristianitytestballi (talk) 16:57, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Number of bronze medals (19) is wrong (should be 18)

In all other sources I visited including https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_at_the_Olympics and https://olympics.com/en/olympic-games/tokyo-2020/medals it says that China had 18 and not 19 bronze medals. I suggest to correct this in both the table and the section about bronze medal winners. I guess one of them was disqualified later? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steffeler (talk • contribs) 21:22, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

See link here -210.6.22.103 (talk) 01:51, 21 February 2022 (UTC)