Talk:Characters of the Final Fantasy XIII series/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: David Fuchs (talk · contribs) 14:09, 9 July 2013 (UTC) {{doing}} Ping me if there isn't something here in a day or two. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 14:09, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's a discussion here you should be aware of: Wikipedia_talk:GAN#Characters_of_the_Final_Fantasy_XIII_series, part of a much larger thread. You might let that play out before going too far into the review, just in case this article turns out to be ineligible. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:22, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've taken a look, but at present I think I can proceed with the review. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 16:19, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Images:
- ~~File:Snow Villiers concept art.jpg - no reason for this to be in there, since it's close to his game appearance and there's not any critical commentary that can't be fulfilled by the game promo art.~~
- File:Main characters of Final Fantasy XIII-2.jpg - I get you're somewhat limited here, but probably assembling a lower-rez montage of the characters would be more effective in terms of identification than this one, which as it stands doesn't have enough utility for me to say it passes WP:NFCC.
References:
- ~~Most of the reference works look good. Only ones I was not familiar with: Gematsu, Andriasang (is giving me errors trying to access), and Just Push Start. Any details on how these are reliable?~~
- References need a complete recheck, as doing some spot checks revealed issues: for instance, ...and has light blonde hair under a black bandana. is sourced to [1] which contains no text relating to that character; Some of the in-game citations don't adequately source the prose ( Eight days before the game's start, they inadvertently caused Sazh's son Dajh to be branded a Sanctum l'Cie and began the Purge. and Ref 51.
- Sources for voice actor credits throughout?
Prose:
- Some minor grammar issues, but nothing too major.
- A bigger issue is that a lot of this article is dense and impenetrable for someone like me who has never played a Final Fantasy game, let alone this one. The solution lies in two parts simplifying the plot summaries to one part explaining terms when they come up, methinks. It's an issue in the lead paragraph itself, which contains plot details not contained anywhere else in the article (WP:LEAD issue), and also starts hitting readers with a lot of proper nouns really quickly. I have no idea what a l'Cie is in relation to the fal'Cie, I have no idea why there are resistance groups in this world, 500 AF gets suddenly dropped with no real intro, etc. Cutting down the plot-loading in the lead and making an opening "setting" section would probably help set this up in a more digestible manner, but the other bit is just cutting down the massive amounts of info for some of these characters. The less I have to read the more likely I am to understsand the basics.
- On a related note, what's with everyone's height measurements? It's irrelevant to the plot and just takes up space.
- Something I'm less sure on is the tense. Obviously game events should be present tense, and while I suppose it works to describe stuff before the games as occurring in past, I think as the article is currently written it's a form of whiplash to keep going from past to present descriptions throughout. I'd structure to all be in present tense.

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 12:49, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Right, here we go with the reply.

- Images:
  - Both removed. We'll likely have to wait for LR to come out before we get a shot of the majority of the cast.
- References:
  - Picked up a few of them, I think. Some help pinpointing them would be appreciated.
  - Gematsu is a good place to find accurate translations of articles from Famitsu, Dengkei, Shonen Jump and alike, and if often provides a link to the original article so you can cross-check it. No-one's complained, and users seem to be using it happily enough. It's been used to good effect in Final Fantasy XV. Andriasang is like that now it's not being posted on regularly, it comes and goes, but most of the time it is there and working. Try again in a couple of days. Just Push Start has been removed. That info can be put in at a later date when there's a better reference, since I'm not very sure about its reliability either.
  - Reworked and reworded, plus deleted unneeded info.
  - Most character articles I've read and edited don't seem to bother with that (including Characters of Final Fantasy XII, Characters of Final Fantasy X and X-2), so I didn't think it would matter. And I doubt we could find references for them anyway. Certainly a lot of voice actor info, and indeed a lot of info from interviews and such, is mostly only to be found on fan sites that are inadmissible to this site as references.
- Prose:
  - Done a lot of major and minor trimming, and put up a "Setting" section. There is still room for improvement, and I have set up links to articles which have/will have fuller details. Don't want this article or section to get too big and involved. Also, we must bear in mind that this mythos is shared by two other games, since the XIII games are part of a subseries themselves (which I have mentioned in the article to clarify). Lead also reworked to put in as little in-universe stuff as possible.
  - Gotten rid of.
  - Fixed most of it, I think. Maybe you could point out any specific instances I miss or missed.

Well, that's a first pass from me. Still plenty of room for improvement if/where needed. --ProtoDrake (talk) 16:05, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree completely on this "setting" section. This is an article about the characters and setting is more like trying the easy way out to not simplify rather than fixing the issues. This article should only cover info related to the characters, not the world they set in. A big NO to adding a setting section.Lucia Black (talk) 19:39, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, and all things considered, I didn't want it either. I've done what's needed. Thinking about it, many other Character articles exist without such sections. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:43, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That may be true, but the article may require some explanation of context to make it understandable to the general reader, as long as we add that, it probably doesn't matter what we call it. ProtoDrake seems to know these stories well and should be able to perhaps run through the story's points in brief, otherwise you'll have to add context throughout with may be more work. Keep going, GA is coming! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:28, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

well this article is a spin off of Xiii, Xiii-2 and Lightning returns, so any more info on plot details can be found there. This article is to compliment those ones. .Lucia Black (talk)

True, but the fact is that if people have to link away to another article to understand the one they're reading... they'll likely never return. That's the reality of internet usability. This article should be able to give readers the bare minimum necessary to comprehend the topic; then if people want more info of course the main game articles are going to be there. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 22:38, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh dear, something tells me this article's going to fail just because we can't agree. --ProtoDrake (talk) 22:49, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Theres no issue, just wohltemperierte is clarifying. Regardless, the "setting section" does little to clarify between characters section. If its too difficult to understand, it may go into too detail or doesnt clarify properly. But the setting section isnt an issue. People should be able to comprehend the basics of these characters and what their doing throughout the series.Lucia Black (talk) 23:06, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I've done something. I've segued the needed introductory information (with rescued references) into the lead, which still looks alright. Now people who need the info can read it in the lead, while those who know it already can just skip over it. If needs be, this can be deleted as well, but I'm more comfortable with this than with the full-blown setting section. --ProtoDrake (talk) 23:14, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It doesnt look too bad. This is more acceptable.Lucia Black (talk) 23:34, 15 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's looking much better, but still some issues:

humans gifted with magical powers and a Focus, a task to complete within a given time. Unsure whether this means they were turned into humans with magical powers and a Focus, or the intention is they were turned into humans with magical powers and given a task called a Focus to complete.
Terms not explained on their first mentions: ~~Eidolon~~, PSICOM, Bodhum, " Flan-collective fiend", Ragnarok, what the hell "her l'Cie brand activates" means. This is through the main characters section. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 14:52, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've addressed them. The "Focus" bit now reads like it's humans who were given magical powers and a Focus, and all the unexplained terms have been sorted out (briefly explain PSICOM, Eidolons and Ragnarok, deleted Bodhum, replaced "Flan-collective fiend", and altered the "l'Cie brand activates" sentence to leave out the piece about the brand). Anything else? (on a side note, Andraisang is working fine for me now.) --ProtoDrake (talk) 15:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Done some more tidying work, addressed unfamiliar terms without explanation, found some minor grammar faults (now corrected), added references and a few other fixes. --ProtoDrake (talk) 09:04, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I think the article is in good enough shape for GA. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 20:06, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]