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Suzuki JV section

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The Suzuki JV section includes information that doesn't relate to the JV company but rather the JV's Chinese partner and the topic of this page. I don't believe the Ideal is a JV product, and I'm not sure the statement "lower end Changhe-Suzukis depend on the common Chinese built engines" is true.

I've looked at all the press releases relating to Changhe-Suzuki on the Suzuki website, and none mention the Ideal, which from pictures is Changhe branded unlike Changhe-Suzuki products that carry the Suzuki brand.

The citation supporting the latter statement about engines is also in regards to what I am confident is simply a Changhe offering--not a product of Changhe's JV with Suzuki. Fleetham (talk) 15:40, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a 2005 press release from Suzuki that lists only the Carry Van, Wagon R+, and Liana as products. Apparently the Ideal was "first seen in 2003", so if it were a JV product why would it not be included?
This 2006 Suzuki press release lists JV products as the Landy, Wagon R Wide, Aerio, and K14B Engine.
This 2010 Suzuki press release has a list of current models produced in China. Only the Landy and Liana are listed as being made by Changhe-Suzuki.
Also, all models made by Suzuki joint ventures in China are Chinese-market versions of Suzuki products sold elsewhere and carry the Suzuki brand. The Ideal and the Freedom microbus are Changhe branded and they are not Suzuki products. Fleetham (talk) 16:04, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I included a reference for the "common Chinese" engines - but you deleted it. I guess that the Freedom and Ideal could be moved to the correct section - but as usual you went ahead and deleted the content instead of behaving in a civil fashion. I have asked you time and time again to act according to wikipedia guidelines for civility, but you insist on deleting material over and over again. My patience is beginning to run very short.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 06:56, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of making the JV a section of its own, offering a more chronological presentation of Changhe's history allows us to worry less about Changhe vs Changhe-Suzuki. This also allows for lots of useful and interesting material to remain in the article. Aerio is, btw, just the US market name for the Liana - AFAIK it has never been offered under that name in China.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 07:18, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that a chronological order is better. In reference to the deleted ref., I believe it mentioned that the Freedom used a Chinese-designed engine: the Freedom isn't a JV product, so the ref. didn't support the statement. I would guess, although I don't know, that all JV products use Suzuki engines. They all bear Suzuki badges. I didn't know, and you are correct, about Liana/Aerio. One of the Suzuki news articles mentioned that the Changhe JV made the Aerio, which I guess they do except they call it Liana. I've got to agree with you on thinking it's called Liana in China. I've seen several mentions of that name in reference to JV products on the Suzuki site, but only one of Aerio, which could easily be a mistake. Or perhaps they initially called it Aerio and adopted the other name when they started to sell the new Liana. IDK. Fleetham (talk) 15:50, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I reinstated certain informative content which was deleted for no apparent reason, but other than that the current version sits ok with me. I am also reinstating mention of the K12B engine - it is built by Changhe listed and used in the Landy. As usual I implore you to freely add information but to please please please stop deleting text without first adding a "cn" tag and allowing a reasonable amount of time to find a quote.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 19:13, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

K14B/K12B usage

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Wagon R

Liana

Landy

Freedom

Ideal

There you are - I will remove the cn tag. And no, these entirely superfluous references do not need to be added to the article. And, in the interest of politeness, the "citation needed" tag is mainly used if you believe a stated fact is untrue or disputable, whereas this is clearly not the case here.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 06:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I do remember looking at spec. pages and only remember seeing the K1-type engine on one. For example, look at this Liana spec page and this Ideal spec page . (I got to these from the main page.) So I apologize for putting you to the extra effort, but I did add the tag because I thought the info. was wrong. I was just going to delete it but am trying to be more considerate. Is it possible that these two used the K1-type in the past but no longer do? Fleetham (talk) 17:14, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Liana is clearly available with several different engines. Whether the Ideal is no longer available with the K14B is hard to say, but the text doesn't make the claim that it is currently available - thus this is of no difference.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 05:40, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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