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Archive 1

[Untitled]

Rumkowski Mordechai Rumkowski Chaim Rumkowski

That last sentence needs to be helped. "aspects of the Holocaust"?

Cleanup needed

There are many judgemental statements: 'unsuccessful businessman', 'Nazi collaborator', 'dictatorial and ruling with an iron hand', "a man sick with megalomania", "King Chaim", "an old man of 70, extraordinarily ambitious and pretty nutty", 'an estimated number of 5,000 to 10,000 Jews gave him some credit for their survival', 'The Lodz ghetto was also the only ghetto not controlled by the SS'. All of this may be true (it is consistent with what I have read elsewhere) but citations are needed. I haven't peppered the article with CN tags as there would be too many. The numerous weasel-worded phrases in this article would best be addressed by citation.

'It remains unclear whether, if he had survived the war, Rumkowski would have received thanks for saving the people he did, or a jail-term for allowing so many to go to their deaths' is speculative.

I've stuck a cleanup tag on it, and may add anything I can find in the next few days. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 21:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Three years ago, someone split up the "old man" quote and inserted "Kelsey's baby". Who was Kelsey? The link leads to a disambig where no option makes sense.--92.78.99.244 (talk) 20:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I've just seen the Kelsey's baby thing myself, (it's a shop) clearly no one has been brave enough to remove it, which I find mystifying. So I can do at least that. Stevebritgimp (talk) 23:52, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Otherwise other quotes there date back to the original set up of the article by User:Cautious, who didn't give any references. The user is Polish, so might have had a source, or might have been expressing his own opinions - who knows? This article really needs someone with access to a book, so they can at least start referencing stuff. Stevebritgimp (talk) 00:12, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Zionist activist?

We are informed that Rumkowski was allegedly a "Zionist activist" in the first sentence of the article. Yet no citation is given, and the words Zionism, Israel, and Palestine do not appear anywhere in the article at all. Thus, the menion of Zionism in the FIRST SENTENCE appears to be an attempt to smear Zionism by associating it with a morally compromised individual. To justify the characterization of Rumkowski as a "Zionist activist," let alone in the first sentence, Zionism would have to have formed a major part of his aspirations at least for a fraction of his lifetime. Unless information to this effect is added to the article, the reference to Zionism should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.8.238.180 (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

This criticism is completely legitimate. I have performed a search for evidence of this and the claim that he is an "industrialist" There is no basis for either fact. In my research, I found multiple cites for him being born in Russia, but he did live in Poland for much of his life. I am making conforming changes. --Jameseavesjo (talk) 20:33, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Source of Reassessment

There is a technical issue with this article. I refers at least twenty times to a source called Reassessment, but there is no word what this reassessment is.TomyDuby (talk) 04:49, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

It appeared to have been a shorthand for cites related to Unger's Reassessment, noted in Sources. I've added the author's name and date of his book to make those repeated cites more accurate; also refer to Unger's work in the text as it is relied on so much - and he represents the historians who are reassessing this period.Parkwells (talk) 12:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Nazis

I question the frequent use of the term "Nazi" in this article. The pervasive use of the term Nazi is just as misleading as describing Union forces during the American Civil War as "Republicans". My point is that some were, some (probably most, I suppose) were not. You'd need to show that the Orpo, who I understand were in control of the Lodz Ghetto, were predominantly Nazi. What is the justification for that?173.189.74.253 (talk) 02:21, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

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Rumkowski was russian- polish Jew , non Pole

Rumkowski was russian- polish Jew , non Pole — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.37.75.91 (talk • contribs)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 May 2019

86.140.90.249 (talk) 09:00, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

CGAIM RUMKOWSKI WAS A JEWISH NOT POLISH,PLESA CHANGE HIS NATIONALITY FOR CORRECT

 Not done: Jewish is not a nationality. See the talk page discussions above. – Jonesey95 (talk) 10:35, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 May 2019

CHAIM RUMKOWSKI WAS A JEWISH NOT POLISH,PLEASE CORRECT HIS NATIONALITY AND STOP VANDALIZING THE WIKIPEDIA. Expressing by editors their own private ideological sentiments on the Wikipedia pages lowers its credibility. Stop it now, please. 194.103.189.14 (talk) 14:36, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

 Already answered. See above. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:44, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Chaim Rumkowski is a Jewish collaborator

cooperating with German Nazis.

https://kresy.pl/wydarzenia/anglojezyczna-wikipedia-usuwa-wzmianki-o-zydowskim-pochodzeniu-nazistowskich-kolaborantow/

It has already been discussed. Please check the last discussion Tashi Talk to me 15:16, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
But still the article is not true. He was a Jew, NOT a Pole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.105.34.101 (talk • contribs)
Please review the discussions above. Jayjg (talk) 13:17, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Current dispute

There is ongoing dispute. Where exactly the dispute shall be discussed? The current description Polish businessmen doesn't seem right.

What is the ground describing a Russian-born Jew, as Polish businessmen? Cautious (talk) 20:21, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

See MOS:ETHNICITY. Icewhiz (talk) 20:35, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Chaim Rumkowski was a Jew born in Russia, who immigrated to Poland. His ethnicity was Jewish. Moreover, when he was appointed a haed of Ghetto, he already belonged to racial cathegory a Jew, according to Nazi appartheid rules. Cautious (talk) 20:51, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
His ethnicity is obvious. As the article says, he was born in Russia, in Jewish shtetl to Jewish parents. He immigrated to Poland, where ha was a mwmber of Qahal. Writing he was Polish is inconsistent with the rest of the article. Waćpan
I agree. Moreover, he was failed businessmen and later he became pedophile orphanage director. Cautious (talk) 22:10, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
It is true, however, the nationality is based on citizenship, which was awarded to Rumkowski when the Second Polish Republic emerged. Regardless, I don't see why nationality would be even mentioned in the lead. It is best to say "was a businessman appointed as head of Lodz Ghetto etc." Also, "Jewish" is not a nationality only an identity so it is best to leave it out. Oliszydlowski, 09:54, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
He was a Polish citizen. Furthermore I want to note that thw opinions of modern right-wing Polish politicans are generally UNDUE for historical subjects - we have better sources.Icewhiz (talk) 07:00, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Seems nobody reads MOS:ETHNICITY, it states that ethnicity can be mentioned “Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.”Obviously in this case the ethnicity is relevant.MyMoloboaccount (talk) 09:01, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

What is the problem here? He was a Russian-born Jew, a Polish Jew, and a Polish citizen. None of those are conflicting. Infobox only has a parameter for "Nationality", and IMHO there's no such thing, nor ever was, as a "Jewish nationality". Being Jewish is an ethnicity, and if anyone wants to add such a parameter to the infobox, go ahead, but it's a discussion for the template talk, but it seems this was discussed before many times, so, beware of kicking dead horses. What we can discuss is how to describe him in the lead. I'd think that Russian-born Polish Jew would be the correct description for it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:26, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Of course you are correct regarding the infobox. And the lede can certainly mention that he's Jewish where it is relevant, but obviously not in the first sentence. The biography of Elie Wiesel doesn't say he was a "Jewish" whatever in the first sentence, despite this being a critical part of his notability. MOS:ETHNICITY does allow for some (small) exceptions, but that would be a pretty high bar to pass, and it seems unlikely to me that this individual's bio would meet that, and even then, nationality would have to be mentioned regardless. Jayjg (talk) 14:58, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't think "Russian-born" is of any particular relevance here to the lede. He moved when he was 15 within the Russian empire's Pale of Settlement to Vistula Land. Imposing pre-WWI geography on post-WWI geography is not coherent. Icewhiz (talk) 16:03, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
I count 7 editors here(both commenting and carrying out edits) as supporting MOS:Ethnicity rule and including his Jewish ethnicity-which is highly relevant to his life, with 2 opposing this inclusion.It seems that in this case the consenus is overhwelming.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Well, I don't think anyone is arguing that the lede shouldn't include information regarding his ethnicity; any member of the Judenrat, confined to a Jewish ghetto, is obviously Jewish. I think the issues are including it as his nationality in the infobox, including it in the first sentence, and excluding his nationality in the first sentence. Which editors support that? Do you, for example? Jayjg (talk) 20:02, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Well, I don't think anyone is arguing that the lede shouldn't include information regarding his ethnicity; any member of the Judenrat, confined to a Jewish ghetto, is obviously Jewish' Might be obvious to you, but I am quite certain not to many others.Polish is ambigious and can indicate that he was as ethnic Pole or identify as such. A good compromise is Polish-Jewish.In any case there is no consensus for solely Polish in the first sentence.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 20:15, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Polish is ambigious and can indicate that he was as ethnic Pole or identify as such - so are you indicating that the problem is that people might think he is an ethnic Pole? Jayjg (talk) 20:27, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
For people unfamiliar with things, especially current dumbed generation, it is not at all evident that ghetto had Jewish self-government. Also, Wikipedia says Lodz ghetto was for both Jews and Roma. Therefore ethnicity may be an important clarification, especially bearing in mind that he is widely recognized as a traitor of his own people. Staszek Lem (talk) 22:35, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Those are interesting points, although given that the article has him in three Jewish categories, states in the first sentence of his biography that he had Jewish parents, and shows a picture of him with a yellow badge Star of David on his coat in the lede, I think there are more "clues" here than just him being the head of the Jewish Council in the Jewish ghetto in Lodz. Regardless, I don't understand how they explain the importance of the statement that Polish is ambigious and can indicate that he was as ethnic Pole or identify as such; can you, or MyMoloboaccount explain. Jayjg (talk) 22:57, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
First of all, maybe we should look at definition of "nationality": 1.Membership of a particular nation or state, by origin, birth, naturalization, ownership, allegiance or otherwise. 2.National, i.e. ethnic and/or cultural, character or identity. - while you are trying to use only first definition (even if it's because of wikipedia standards ) most people use both - while poles will probably use mostly second one (since polish meaning nationality is different than western one - it's more like: ethnicity + people that identify with that nationality; rather than citizenship for which there is different word) - you are giving impression that you are trying to give him polish ethnicity. By polish definition he had jewish nationality and polish citzenship. Also your reasoning of "clues" is out of place since infobox should by Help:Infobox be: "Concise. Infobox templates are "at-a-glance", and used for quickly checking facts." - note that this not case since definition of word "nationality" is ambiguous itself... I can only tell you one thing, even if you leave his nationality at this form - it will be "corrected" by first pole that will read this article after unlock.. Also "the importance"? So we will not get such news: "Wikipedia removes references to the Jewish origin of collaborators" - Polish Public News. Wiedzosław 01:13, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
Well, the infobox parameter "nationality" is for "membership of a particular nation or state etc.", not ethnicity. Regarding the importance, though: where is this news story in "Polish Public News"? Also, what difference does it make if we get the news "Wikipedia removes references to the Jewish origin of collaborators"? Why should Wikipedia care or do anything about this? Jayjg (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
While I recognize that Polish language use of "nationality" is different from use in the English language - this is the English language Wikipedia. We use terms as commonly accepted in English. We do not adapt our English language use to fit foreign language conventions (this is true for Polish, Russian, French - anything other than American/English/Australian/etc. WP:ENGVAR - we don't have a "Polish English" or a "French English"). Icewhiz (talk) 13:34, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
This what exactly what I wanted to write, but cancelled, because I am not a native English speaker, so my opinion in this respect may be questionable. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:25, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Ильино

Russian wiki claims that he was born in Ilino, Velikoluksky district. However, this source https://zakazanehistorie.pl/wladca-getta/ gives another place of the same name Ильино Velizh uyezd, Vitebsk gubernia. This place has entry https://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/community.php?usbgn=-2914421.

Moreover, Pskov area ought to be outside of Pale.

I believe we mean Velizh uyezd. However, who has some confirmation?Cautious (talk) 09:09, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

The first ref is a reliable source, historian pl:Leszek Pietrzak, from his series "Forbidden Histories". It has plenty of detail. I wanted to update the article from there, but have no time. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:36, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
However it does not specify uyezd. In modern Russia, part of Vitebsk Governorate was passed to Smolensk Oblast. Ильино Velizh uyezd is now in Smolens Ob. But there ate two more Ильино in smpl Ob. We do not know how many Ilyino were in Vit Gov. However the second source is also reliable, citing. eg. Słownik Geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego (1880-1902), III, p. 260: "Ilino" #2. Słownik lists 3 llino. However only one of them was miasteczsko, i.e., sztetl. So we can be pretty much sure. However this would be original research and we do need reliable source for final confirmation. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:57, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
Pietrzak is not reliable.... These aren't histories in the usual sense. Look at his AfD here + also I think RSN.Icewhiz (talk) 19:02, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
I do not think that for bio details he is nonreliable. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:14, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
A was mistaken about Smolensk Oblast. I traced the old and new maps, and actually this part of Vitebsk Gov is now in Pskov Oblast, right here. It does not have ru: article: see ru:Ильино . But it is stilll OR. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:14, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
Infreakingbelievable. In this area there is a tripoint of Smolenst, Pskov and Tver Oblasts. And from the map which shows Oblasts I see the Illino in question is in Tver Oblast . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Staszek Lem (talk • contribs)


death

The source listed explicitly states that the given manner of his death is questioned [1].Volunteer Marek (talk) 15:20, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

You could summarize in the article the three? possibilities. Jayjg (talk) 13:27, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 September 2019

The name of the source quoted extensively in the article is Michal Unger, not Michael - and she is a woman, not a man. I'm sitting in the Yad Vashem library right now looking at books she has written, including the one quoted here. 212.143.123.66 (talk) 09:58, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Good catch, I've corrected the text and citation. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 10:53, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2019

82.141.232.173 (talk) 15:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Why do you call Janusz Korczak "Polish-Jewish",but Chaim Rumkowski is just Polish.He was Polish-Jewish too you liers.

 Not done: See discussion above. aboideautalk 15:30, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Why? I think it's easy to notice - if a particular Jew (historic person) was a good guy, contemporary Jews are certainly happy to claim as one of their breed, and if another Jew like Rumkowski was a shameful creature, the Wiki squad shift their nationality to Polish, German, Russian, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.87.208 (talk) 11:34, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

What does it mean?

Please do not ask editors to change the nationality parameter in the infobox to "Jew" or "Jewish". Infobox person does not indicate ethnicity, and the nationality parameter cannot be used for this purpose.

The text above appears, when talk page is being accessed. Why an obvious false, apparently anti-Polish biased, must not be pointed out? What is the basis of such prohibition? Why is it anonymous? 178.42.150.153 (talk) 03:24, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Because that seems to be consensus of the page, and because considering Jewish a nationality is simply incorrect by modern definitions.Toad02 (talk) 13:43, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Untitled

77.65.109.160 (talk) Yes. He is Jewish and any editor can't change that. Please check other language versions. He's "Polish" only in the English version. Notionality is not equal to Citizenship. 77.65.109.160 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:54, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons has media related to Ghetto Litzmannstadt.


{{DEFAULTSORT:Rumkowski, Mordechai Chaim}} [[Category:1877 births]] [[Category:1944 deaths]] [[Category:Jewish collaborators with Nazi Germany]] [[Category:Łódź Ghetto inmates]] [[Category:Polish people who died in Auschwitz concentration camp]] [[Category:Polish civilians killed in World War II]] [[Category:Polish Jews who died in the Holocaust]] {{talk refs}}

|}

Maciejswirski (talk) 11:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Note: I see you want us to change the nationality to Jewish, which I cannot do. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 15:21, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Chaim Rumkowski is Jewish, not Polish

Please make corrections Jagoda86 (talk) 18:18, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Please learn English language. He is of Jewish ethnicity, but Polish nationality. And we do not put ethnicity in the infobox. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:22, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

He was of Jewish ethnicity and nationality, but Polish citizen. == Please change in the frame under the "nationality - Polish" photo to "nationality - Jewish"==

"Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים ISO 259-3 Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation [jehuˈdim]) or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group[10] and a nation,[11][12][13] originating from the Israelites[14][15][16] and Hebrews[17][18] of historical Israel and Judah. Jewish ethnicity, nationhood, and religion are strongly interrelated,[19][20] as Judaism is the ethnic religion of the Jewish people, while its observance varies from strict observance to complete nonobservance."John9921 (talk) 22:30, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

The nationality parameter on infobox person is for citizenship, not ethnicity. Jayjg (talk) 13:19, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Nationality parameter is clearly for NATIONALITY, like the name clearly say. Not for citizenship. According to Wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews: "Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group[..] and a NATION [...]".

In addition between 1939 and 1945, nobody had polish citizenships, because whole Poland was occupied by German and Soviet Union. So, Chaim Rumkowski nationality should be either Jew (according to Wikipedia) or German Nazi (for sure to be far closer to logic of someone who removed his Jewish nationality). For sure not Polish.

Clearly there are lack of additional property on Wikipedia, which could transparently describe changing nationality and citizenships in the timeline, and by the way to be less sensitive and avoid presure of current political demands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sommers.Travis (talk • contribs)

You are incorrect; the nationality parameter is being used exactly as it was intended. Your point about citizenship when Poland was occupied by Germany and the Soviet Union is precisely the reason for the nationality parameter; because these occupations destroyed the legitimate government of Poland, all citizens of that (former) country retained their Polish nationality, but were no longer citizens of Poland, which no longer existed. Jayjg (talk) 17:21, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
This statement is false. The Polish government had not been destroyed - it worked on exile during whole WWII. Polish citizens retained their Polish citizenship, because contrary acts of occupying powers were against the law and, as such, had no effect of depriving Polish citizens of their citizenship. Therefore Chaim Rumkowski was a citizen of Poland and a member of Jewish nation - and these are all facts which may be stated about him in a legitimate way. Attribute of "nationality" as explained below: "a combination of citizenship, place of birth, and self identification that is entirely separate from ethnicity" is not based on facts, but on evaluation, so it's impossible to verify and should not pe presented as fact. So, stating that Mr Rumkowski was of Polish "nationality" is obviously unfounded.178.42.150.153 (talk) 03:12, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
While I agree he maintained Polis citizenship, I do not believe that makes his nationality Jewish. See my other comment. Toad02 (talk) 13:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Please also read the article "Nationality". Staszek Lem (talk) 17:29, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I agree that he is of Polish nationality. Historically, the concept of "nationality" was closely linked to ethnicity, and rulers used a supposed common tie of history, language, and culture to create legitimacy for their states (when religious legitimacy was beginning to fail). By this older conception of a nation, Jews were considered a nation; however, nationalism has changed immensely since the 1800s and early 1900s. Nobody today considers your nationality to be directly tied to your language and cultural heritage; instead, we all consider it to be a combination of citizenship, place of birth, and self identification that is entirely separate from ethnicity. Toad02 (talk) 18:07, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
First, what is that "nationality" you both refer to? The concept itself is extremely unclear, unverifiable and seems contrary to Ockham's razor because it has no raison d'etre - it is an illogical mix of legal and social indicators that can be arbitrarily interpreted. As far as I know, it also has no foundation in international law. Second, even if "nationality" in this sense would exist, there would be no reason to describing Polish "nationality" to Mr Rumkowski, who clearly was a Jew. If we label Mr Rumkowski as Polish, you should also label this way, for example, Mr Menachem Begin and rabbi Tzvi Hirsh of Zidichov, who had even more ties with Poland. So why that has not been done? 178.42.150.153 (talk) 03:12, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
While I agree that nationality can be considered vague if you think about it too hard, it is very clear in common usage (at least in the English language) that Judaism is not a nation, but rather an ethnicity. Rumkowski was a Polish citizen, so it is correct to call his nationality "Polish." Could you please provide adaquete evidence that Jewish is a nationality in the modern sense? Toad02 (talk) 13:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

The category 'Nationality': polish is misleading ! It suggests belonging to a specific ethnic group. Chaim Rumkowski was a Jew.
I suggest objective category: Citizenship or complete the category 'ethnicity'
--Krzysieg (talk) 09:54, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

This has been explained over and over again. Please see the discussion above. Polish is correct. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 12:44, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Rumkowski nationality is JEWISH not polish !! z_piotr (talk) 08:03, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Rumkowski was Jewish not polish, wikipedia must change this false information. z_piotr (talk) 08:19, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

rumkowski was Jewish. z_piotr (talk) 08:19, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Please review the discussion above. Jayjg (talk) 15:26, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Wouldn't the Polish-Jewish controversy just dissapear if we used nationality with citizenship? Recommendation from Template:Infobox person strongly suggests that it should be used: "Nationality - May be used instead of |citizenship= (below) or vice versa in cases where any confusion could result. Should only be used with |citizenship= when they differ". And so the do - citizenship - Polish and nationality - Jewish. It is clearly needed, as creator of the infobox intended. And all will be perfect clear. --Kacperpawlak (talk) 20:53, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Polish?

This bastard was jewish not polish 2A00:F41:7072:4B4:ECAE:53BB:4146:E9EA (talk) 17:22, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended confirmed protected edit request on August 4th, 2022

Section "Debate over Rumkowski's role in the Holocaust," third paragraph starting "Rumkowski took an active role," towards the end. It says, "Lucille Eichengreen...wrote, 'I felt disgusted and I felt angry, I ah, but if I would have run away he would have had me deported, I mean that was very clear.'" Please change the word "wrote" to "said" per WP:OBVIOUS. The source doesn't seem to make clear whether these people's quotes are written or spoken but is there any chance Eichengreen put pen to paper and included "I ah?" She had to have said that out loud. Thank you. 2600:1700:9AD0:4AB0:B892:F56D:34A0:5BB9 (talk) 13:58, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done SWinxy (talk) 04:53, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
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