Talk:Caucasus Emirate

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Flag of the Emirate

Is this the flag of the Caucasus Emirate? http://generalvekalat.org/images/mail.jpg From: http://generalvekalat.org/

If this is their flag then we should update some of the combatant flags.

[[1]] Abdul Halim also had this flag. Was it used for the Caucasian front? If so this flag should have been used instead of the Jihad flag for the caucasian front - PietervHuis 02:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The Chechen resistance uses many different flags and it is not always clear what element of the resistence any particular flag represents. The flag in the background of the photograph of Sadulayev gained popularity after the demise of Aslan Maskhadov, who favored the flag with the Chechen coat of arms adopted by Dudayev. This flag was abandoned by Sadulayev because the depiction of an animal (the wolf in the emblem) is in conflict with Muslim tradition, hence the new flag with the taqbir underscored by a saif. Whether or not there is a proper flag for the Caucasian Emirate is uncertain at the moment. Although Kavkazcenter seems to be using[2] the one that was supposed to have been the flag of the Chechnya-Dagestan Emirate after Khattab's and Basayev's invasion in 1999.[3]

ForrestSjap (talk) 11:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for clearing that up. Do you know what rebels fighting for the caucasian front (not from chechnya) used for flags? Currently on the main page the caucasian front is simply depicted by a Jihadi flag, same as the mujahideen. I'm wondering if I can replace it with something else. - PietervHuis 15:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The flag of Jihad is probably the best option at the moment. It has been widely used by Caucasian rebels and I don't think that any other flag would fit in the article about the Caucasian front until it becomes clear what the official flag of the Caucasian Emirate is going to be. This flag will probably be adopted by the Caucasian Front as well since it will now undoubtedly become the military branch of the Emirate. If it turns out to be this one[4] we can just ask the creators of FOTW if we can use it in an article. If it turns out to be another one we can ask them to make a digital version of it. I think most of the flags on Wikipedia have been created by them. Kom je trouwens uit Nederland toevallig?ForrestSjap (talk) 19:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bedankt. Ja dus :) - PietervHuis 20:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Russia.htm This site also has the flag in question listed as the one for the caucasus emirate. If it becomes official, we should give umarov this flag. - PietervHuis (talk) 03:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to give Umarov that flag anyway. The CHRI flag doesnt fit him anymore, and the Jihad flag is too broad. http://generalvekalat.org/ is said to be the official site of the emirate and it uses the flag.

They made a hq version recently, http://imgs2.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2008/02/01/55960_1.jpg We can used it till anything else is known. - PietervHuis (talk) 00:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

you know what, if you want I will create a PD version --TheFEARgod (Ч) 10:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That would be cool, it would be best to try and mirror the flag that was always behind Sadulayev. I normally can do it myself too I think, but my computer is broken and I don't have the proper software atm. - PietervHuis (talk) 12:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, thanks for the flag.

I don't think your image map is accurate though. Stavropol Krai shouldn't be included, and Adygea should. That's what I remember. I think it should be these states: [5] - PietervHuis (talk) 21:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I used the info on the Russian Wiki. If you can, however, confirm that with another source, I'll alter the map.--TheFEARgod (Ч) 12:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[6] Hmm it doesn't include Adygea to my surprise. But it doesn't include stavoprol Krai either. It does include the "nogay steppe". What's that? Umarov said "I don't think that it is necessary to draw the borders of the Caucasus Emirate." so even though this steppe might lie in Stavoprol Krai that doesn't mean he claimed entire stavoprol krai.

As you can see, [[7]] I would only include the the are where Nogays and Chechens live in Stavoprol Krai. - PietervHuis (talk) 17:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

thx for the source, I fixed it. As for Adygea, the ethnic map says it is predominantly Slavic-Russian, so probably no Islamic interest --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I updated the flag, matched colors with the original, and sharpened the logo a little, hope you dont mind. - PietervHuis (talk) 17:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, it doesn't seem the Cherkess area of Karachay-Cherkessia is part of it either [8]. I don't think there are official boundiries but it would be best to limit that republic to the Karachay's following the same ethnic composition map [9]. I'll see if I can do it myself. - PietervHuis (talk) 19:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It also seems the "Nogay Steppe" is simply a plain in Dagestan [10] - PietervHuis (talk) 19:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it's just a black-and-white flag with the sword and Arabic letters. --RamboKadyrov (talk) 16:51, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, they're mostly combat flags. Grey Fox (talk) 19:14, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where

where did this idea come from, how do you go from republic to emirate? No seriously this makes no sence, but neither did the original as well--Jakezing (talk) 03:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Level of influence relative to the ChRI?

Which is more powerful, the Caucasus Republic or the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria? The Emirate has much more ambitious territorial claims, but are they a paper government with most Chechen rebels siding with the ChRI, have they superseded the ChRI almost entirely, or are they somewhere in between? I'm trying to get a sense of which one's thoughts on Georgia are more important -- I get the impression that it's the Emirate, given that they and not the ChRI are offering to send troops to Georgia on the NATO side. ExOttoyuhr (talk) 15:02, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The emirate at the moment has most loyalty. Grey Fox-9589 (talk) 19:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1920 emirate

A caucasian emirate already existed during the Russian civil war, its leader was uzun haji, and it was recognized by Georgia and Azerbaijan. Umarov's efforts seem merely an attempt to revive this emirate. This emirate needs an article, but I'm not sure if there should be two seperate articles, or simply one, which speaks of the attempt at revival. Grey Fox-9589 (talk) 19:34, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Any real control?

This article talks about the emirate as declared by Umarov, but what is its area of control (if any) within the claimed territory? --Illythr (talk) 22:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The mountain areas (and currently large parts of Ingushetia), but it's not about control, it's their aim (they consider this territory occupied). Grey Fox (talk) 07:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the aim of the Republic of China is much father then its grasp as well, but its area of control, international recognition, state institutions and other such things are clearly defined. This one state seems to exist only in the minds of its proponents, having no clearly defined, well, anyting. The lead should mention this explicitly. --Illythr (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well yes I proposed something above. This situation could be compared to for example Tibet as visioned by the Tibetan government in exile. They don't have control over the territory either. Grey Fox (talk) 18:01, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic script

The Arabic words in the infobox do not display properly in Firefox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.20.5.34 (talk) 09:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We do not have to use country infobox

According to the statement [11] there are no exact borders of Caucasus Emirate, even as proclaimed borders, because "I don’t think that it is necessary to draw the borders of the Caucasus Emirate." according to the statement of Dokka Umarov. Also he said that "Secondly, after expelling the kuffar we must reconquer all historical lands of Muslims, and these borders are beyond the boundaries of Caucasus." That is why we should not draw the borders of Emirate as the borders of the country, we should not use the country infobox, because there are no such borders even as proclaimed borders, we should not create the borders of this "state" instead of its founders.--Yuriy Kolodin (talk) 00:23, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He made many different claims about this. According to one of them, the boundaries correspond to Sheikh Uzun Haji’s emirate state [12]. According to another, they correspond to Dagestan, Chechnya, Ingushetia, Ossetia, the Nogay steppe and the combined areas of Kabardino-Balkana and Karachay-Cherkessia [13].Biophys (talk) 16:10, 30 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Map title

What is this BS as title for the emirate map: "Territory of Jihad against infidels announced by Dokka Umarov"? If there are any infidels on this earth it is them who do not believe in Christ the Savior. Somebody disagrees - let's carry it out on the battle field, not in Wikipedia. This title must be replaced by something neutral. Hoppelpoppel (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Article is increasingly obselete

Does it even mention the split that occured? No. That's pretty important, because the Gakayev/Vadalov faction actually rejected the concept of a pan-Caucasian state and various other policies of the Emirate. --Yalens (talk) 15:46, 6 December 2010 (UTC) (PS to clarify, yes I know it talked about Umarov's abortive stepping down declaration; but I am talking about the aftermath)[reply]

Yeah, I tagged it as outdated. I'd also propose to make the date of creation of the Emirate as the end of the Second Chechen War, and start of the Insurgency in the North Caucasus (and not some Putin/Medvedev proclamation of an "end" to the "counter-terrorist operation in Chechnya" after almost a decade so a "new" conflict between the same sides would supposedly begin on the very same day(???), which is just silly but currenly Wikipedia is suggesting just this). Oh well. Guess I'll be bold and I'll do just this myself. --Asperchu (talk) 16:29, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the obsolete tag because the Chechen commanders schism ended up with them reunifying under Umurov's leadership in mid 2011 Pmolloy291 (talk) 07:41, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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In the News

A plot to assassinate Vladimir Putin after the Russian presidential election, 2012 is foiled by Ukrainian and Russian intelligence services. (RT) (1TV.ru)

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Resolved This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 00:14, 4 July 2015 (UTC)== Terrorist Organization ==[reply]

This sentence is in the introductory paragraph "Both the Russian Federation and the United States have designated the Caucasus Emirate as a terrorist organisation." However, it is not listed on the US State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.43.12.61 (talk) 01:59, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here you go. --illythr (talk) 13:14, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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'Became' field in infobox

Currently, the infobox contains '|next= Wilayat Qawqaz (Only Defectors)' which is used to denote 'if the faction transformed into another one, the name of that faction' per Template:Infobox_war_faction. While the qualifier '(Only Defectors)' is used, the inclusion of the field is still inappropriate so long as the Caucasus Emirate continues to be active and the majority of its members remain with the group. Furthermore, the field is not used on the pages of other groups that have similarly had defections in the recent past such as Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar, al-Nusra Front and Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan. The recent defections are noted in a separate section within the body of the article. --Credema (talk) 07:39, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

After a week without any objections, I've commented out the 'Became' line in the infobox and pointed any interested editors to this section of the talk page. --Credema (talk) 06:52, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified

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I have just modified 3 external links on Caucasus Emirate. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Georgia both ally and opponent?

I noticed that in the right-hand side infobox Georgia is listed under allies as well as opponents. If this isn't a mistake there should be at least some form of clarification. --Dutchy45 (talk) 18:08, 15 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Abu Mukhammad Dagestaniy.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:38, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed

I fixed a few things. In particular, the successor state of Chechen Republic of Ichkeria is simply modern-day Chechnya, not the Caucasus Emirate. My very best wishes (talk) 16:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification needed on the Caucasus Emirate role in the Russian Civil War (time-travel? error? spam?)

So this country is mentioned as a belligerent in the Russian Civil War which occurred between 1917-1923 officially. (It seems to have a smilie face for a flag.) The article here makes no mention of time-travel, and the dates are fairly recent. So that leaves room for a typo or more likely some sort of nationalist spam, or maybe something else. Any ideas? Know Einstein (talk) 10:12, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]