Talk:Carmella Cammeniti

Fair use rationale for Image:NBlairCarmella.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Edit Revision

I made a revision edit because I was the only one who was bothered to reference the article, and then it gets deleted. Someone is vandalising on purpose...

Article Improvement

I edited this article, and spent a lot of my time gathering sources and reference. The article did not meet the guidelines of wikipedia. It does now. Talk about this here. It could be deleted otherwise Raintheone (talk) 13:11, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Ref number nine ("Natalie Blair speaks about her character") is either dead or it's gone walkabout. - JuneGloom Talk 19:20, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Carmella Cammeniti/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 21:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: one found and fixed.[1] Jezhotwells (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Linkrot: two found and tagged.[2] Jezhotwells (talk) 22:00, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   After a number of guest stints during 2003-05, Blair agreed to return on a permanent basis due to her character's popularity, often described as one of the show's most popular characters. Poor prose

   Carmella has been characterised as "fun and feisty" in her early stints to "luckless and tortured" towards the end of her duration. poor prose

   This was due to the high turn around and the need to quickly fill Goodrem's departure.[2] She was started filming just after she graduated school.[3] She played Carmella on an episodic basis in 2003 and she return for a longer stint in 2004 and briefly in 2005 Basic grammatical errors. Please take this away and get it copy-edited by someone with a good command of written English. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Two dead links as noted above, other references check out, no OR

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Correct non-free use rationale.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   The WP:GACR require articles to be "reasonably well written", which this article is not. It is in fact very poor and should not have been nominated in this poor state. Please get it properly copy-edited, and peer reviewed before renominating. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Marco

The story leaps forward in time too far... I'm missing a crucial bit where Marco is persuaded to stay after buying a one-way ticket out of town (or does he?) The ref doesn't have any online text for that part of the story line. I see he dies in a bush fire, but don't know where or when, so we don't know from the article whether he stayed or not, or where he went. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 04:33, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Carmella convinced him to stay when he was about to go. He died in hospital after marrying Carmella on his death bed.Rain the 1 ^BAM 04:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks.

  I think that the Relationships / Storyline sections of the article don't work. Between them, there is too much repetition whilst still leaving holes in the coverage. I'm going to remove the section on relationships and merge any relevant material into the 'storyline' section. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 05:02, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh hmm, I just noticed. You removed the OOU info (Blairs comments, opinions) from the development sections. Which make it read like another storyline section. It needs the development sections because it won't pass GA without any OOU info. You could cut it from storylines instead I guess.Rain the 1 ^BAM 05:10, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

• Apologies, I'm not familiar with the requirements with this sort of article. I'm just trying to make it more coherent reading, but if the GAN people have other preferences, then I'll stop the reorganisation until we can agree on the way forward. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 05:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Well I need to get more sleep now, but later I'll pull up some of the layouts from the wikiprojects if they still have them. I know, I am a fan of the copy edit you made becuase it certainly makes more sense. I guess as all the articles follow the same layout defacto (is that the right word) for some reason.. I actually want to know why myself now. :pRain the 1 ^BAM 05:22, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Issues

I've done some heavy lifting, trying to move everything out of the storyline section:

I need help to further rearrange text so that everything that has so far been moved dovetails with the family-relationships section.

Then, a new heading for the relationships/family section may be desirable, but that is less urgent, and may fall into place once all the text is in the right order.

In general, there are a large number of non-sequiturs, most I daresay come from minor storylines with little importance to the character whilst mindful of WP:SUMMARY. I think we can remove many of them. Help needed there. Specific examples:

1. "In his book Super Aussie Soaps, Andrew Mercado brands Carmella, the mobster's daughter, as "the mafia princess"." – so what of it? this is a non-sequitur... is there any critical commentary to add?
2. Another non-sequitur is the lack of mention of Carmella's disappearance to become a nun. but we have mention of her mother sending Connor to look for her... --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 10:16, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Carmella Cammeniti/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sanders11 (talk) 13:30, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi there, I will be reviewing this article for you. Sorry you've had to wait so long for a review! It's been years since I've watched Neighbours so I may need some help with the plot. A skim through the article shows no obvious major issues so I will commence with a full review. Sanders11 (talk) 13:30, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   A few issues noted below

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Again a few small issues

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Lead

• "with storylines which saw her attract the attention of a stalker, become a nun and suffer facial scarring, going on to develop an addiction to prescription medication, give birth to a premature daughter and lose her husband after a bushfire." – are all these storylines significant for the lead? It goes on a bit, the "and" after nun disrupts the flow, and I don't think "going on to" is needed  Done
• In the last paragraph you seem to switch back and forth between referring to Blair and Carmella, can you try and make it clearer which is being referred to  Done

I make the changes to the "with storylines" part, removed the one about giving birth to Chloe early as it wasn't a long running story arc. I've stated whether it was Blair or Carmella being discussed in the final paragraph.RaintheOne ^BAM 21:31, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Infobox

• Do you know the episode the image is taken from, or at least the year for a caption and for the image's page
• No dates for student, magazine editor and nun?
  • She was a student when she entered the show, so there is no start date and I didn't think a partial date would look good in the box.  Done Magazine editor and nun. - JuneGloom Talk 15:03, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Storylines

• "She later returns," – how much later? Is this within the same guest stint or the next one?  Done
• "Lliam Amor" – is that a typo for Liam or is that his name?  Done (Indeed, his name is LliamRaintheOne ^BAM 17:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC))
• "Carmella harbours a dark secret:" – this seems a bit out of nowhere, is this when she makes her next appearance? Did she have it when she first returned as a nun?  Done
• "she take time off from the convent" – I think "takes" would read better although I think either is valid  Done
• A saucer of boiling water? Can you tell me what was going on here that it wasn't a cup of water?  Done (It was a saucepan full of boiling water, when the article was copy edited by other editors, they obviously changed that. Corrected.RaintheOne ^BAM 19:16, 29 June 2011 (UTC))
• Might want to have a look at Will Griggs' actor ;)  Done
• I think online is better than on-line, but either is fine  Done (Changed to onlineRaintheOne ^BAM 19:16, 29 June 2011 (UTC))
• No actor listed for Chloe (same issue in lead), but according to the character list the actor's name is known  Done
• Does she stop being a nun at some point? Done (I updated it to say she left after a fellow nun suggested she shouldRaintheOne ^BAM 19:16, 29 June 2011 (UTC))

Development

• "fresh school graduate" – I presume this means newly graduated rather than a graduate from a fresh school, I first read it as being similar to high school graduate so could maybe do with being slightly reworded  Done
• There should be a reference following "fun, feisty and foxy sort of character"  Done
• "many people" – is this still Blair's opinion, or was it a question or another part of the article?  Done
• "always have a special place in her heart" – is "her" referring to Carmella or Blair?  Done
• "Although she began dating Marco, Blair felt that" – reads a bit like Blair was dating Marco, had to read it a couple of times to get it  Done
• "Marc" -> "Marco"  Done
• "It was full on it" – should this be "It was full on"?  Done
• Ref 22 says April not March  Done

Reception

• Ref 7 doesn't support that she returned due to their chemistry  Done
• What category in the Golden Logies was she nominated for? You could add who she lost to if you want  Done (But I left out who she lost to as I thought it is going of topic a little)RaintheOne ^BAM 17:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
• Inside Soap is italicised in one sentence and not in another, which is it?  Done
• "been through a wringer" should have a reference after it  Done
• "that the year 2008" – "that 2008" perhaps?  Done
• Karma doesn't need to be capitalised and should have a link  Done
• "takes the biscuit" again needs a reference after it  Done
• "Oddly, none of her friends think she's gone mad, despite an impromptu version of "Amazing Grace"." – you shouldn't use double quotes within double quotes, the inside ones should be switched to single quotes  Done
• If the author is known you should say their name in the prose, eg "The Herald Sun remarked" should be something like "Fiona Byrne of the Herald Sun remarked"  Done

References

• Is it necessary to say ref 6 is in English?  Done
• Digital Spy is a website, so no italics, likewise News.com, Lowculture, can you check these are all right please  Done
• The MSN TV reference appears to be a blog
• Ref 21 has Kris Green's name back to front  Done

On the whole a good article, it's mostly just minor points that need fixed. The rephrasing that I've done is entirely optional, if you prefer it as it is that's fine, or you can reword it in your own way if you like. I am putting the article on hold for seven days, feel free to question any of my points. Good luck! Sanders11 (talk) 14:41, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Thankyou for the review, I will make a start on the changes.RaintheOne ^BAM 16:36, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I've made the changes, though there are just two points I need to bring up. I'm not sure there is a replacement source for the 2008 Inside Soap Awards, what should I do? The other is including the date under the picture, as their is no caption. We don't usually include captions when only one actor has played the character. That is because it says who portrays below.. However, I did put the year on the image's page for you. I've made each change you suggested other than those two. :)RaintheOne ^BAM 21:39, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

The same reference is used in a featured list (List of awards and nominations received by The Bill) so I guess it must check out okay and can be left. I noticed Pauline Fowler doesn't have a caption for the infobox image so no problem there. When hunting for an Inside Soap reference I did come across http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/scoop/a64083/inside-soap-awards-2007-the-nominations.html showing she was nominated in 2007 as well so that could be included. Also just noticed a small typo in the Storyline, "attepts" should be "attempts". I'll pass you once those are dealt with :). Sanders11 (talk) 22:06, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I fixed the spelling. The 2007 awards was already included. :)RaintheOne ^BAM 23:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

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