Talk:Carlos Menem/Archive 1

Archive 1

Syrian

How Syrian is he? He was married in a Syrian family and the weapons accusation had to do with some Muslim country. I remember that some conspiracist presumed that he was a hidden Muslim apparently Catholic. Is he Catholic? Was his family in Syria Catholic (Maronite, I suppose).

His parents were Syrian Muslims. According to this Encyclopedia Britannica, he was raised Muslim but later converted. [Menem, Carlos. (2006). In Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved July 5, 2006, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9002423] --Khalil78 18:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

See reference

• Biography

Thank you, Ejrrjs. I included some of the info in the article. It is remarkable that it praises Zulema Yoma but tells nothing of the divorce. Just that their daughter becomes First Lady.

Conversion to Christianity

We need a source about Menem's conversion to Christianity. Was he raised in a Muslim family but in a Christian environment? Did he consciously and explicitly decide to be a Catholic and forego the religion of his parents? At what time in his life was he baptized? We have no indication of this in the article. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 17:40, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I mean besides the biography in his official webpage (which is not very detailed). My comment above is meant to show that a good source is needed and also that it should be nice to have these details. "Conversion" sounds like a very large word if it wasn't an important event but simply resulted from a lack of control of the parents on their son's beliefs in a Catholic environment. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 17:44, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I was about to revert again, but it's probably not a good idea. I'm not saying that Menem is not a real Catholic, I'm saying that he might have been a Catholic all his life, or at least not nominally affiliated to any religion in his childhood but tending towards the Catholicism that must have been present all around in his environment outside home. Note well:

• The policy of assuming good faith is not for outside sources, but for content disputes among Wikipedia editors.
• Facts must be sourced; if they're not obvious, they can be disputed and should be discussed, rather than just slapped into an article. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 17:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I posted this above, but thought it would be appropriate here too; His parents were Syrian Muslims. According to this Encyclopedia Britannica, he was raised Muslim but later converted. [Menem, Carlos. (2006). In Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved July 5, 2006, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9002423]. This is according to Britannica. I recall reading before that his parents had actually converted to Catholicism, and thus he was raised a Catholic, but I could be wrong because I can't find a reference to that. --Khalil78 18:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

when his son died in 1995, he buried him in the muslim area and by the muslims tradition, also he gave muslims land in palermo, buenos aires to build a mosque, so some people said he just changed his religion to roman catholic in the papers to support him in his political career. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.215.5.3 (talk) 01:06, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Before his constitutional reforms, you had to be a catholic to be able to be President of Argentina. Ergo, he converted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.50.220.40 (talk) 03:35, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

File:Menem.reforma.ogv Nominated for Deletion

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Carlos Menem/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 13:20, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I will be reviewing this in the next few days. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 13:20, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

General

• I think you should consistently refer to him as "Menem", except at the very beginning of the part of the article after the lead.

Early life and education

• Say "Saúl", not "Saul"
• He visited Buenos Aires with the team, and met the president Juan Perón and his wife Eva Perón You need to mention when this happened, and perhaps add "the then" before "president".
• "Juan Perón" is linked twice in the section.

Governor of la Rioja

• Sources for the section "2nd and 3rd terms"?
• Justicialist Party (Partido Justicialista) (PJ) Mention all those names of the party only when you first mention the party. This link is, anyway, a duplicate.

Presidential elections

• mistakes made by Menem and Alfonsín You have not yet introduced us to Alfonsín. Link his name only here, at first mention, and use his full name. Later on refer to him by his surname.

I will return to read the rest later. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 09:01, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Done. I have preferred to introduce Alfonsín in "2nd and 3rd terms (1983–1989)", at the chronological point when he was elected president. Cambalachero (talk) 17:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Busy in real life, I will finish the review in the next few days. Thanks for the changes. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 11:31, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Presidency

• privatize state enterprises - the first being telephones use a spaced endash
• The first measure of the new economy minister, Érman González It may be helpful to add his tenure here. You may do the same for the fourth economy minister.
• Cavallo began a second wave of privatizations When?
• Domingo Cavallo was reassigned as minister of economy Just Cavallo will do
• Duplinks: capital flight (Economic policy); Fernando de la Rua, Buenos Aires (Domestic policy); carapintadas (Armed forces and Terrorist attacks)
• Is it Carapintadas or carapintadas?

Post presidency

• First two paragraphs of "Corruption charges" appear unsourced
• In June 2004 Menem announced that...locally led by Ángel Maza. source?
• "Minister of Economy" should be wikilinked on first mention in the article. Stick to either "economy minister" or "Minister of Economy".
• Duplinks: Justicialist party, Domingo Cavallo
• and sentenced four and half years in prison sentenced "to"
• Call Domingo Cavallo simply by his surname.
• former justice minister — also received prison sentences of more than three years comma, not endash.

Rest looks good. Cheers, Sainsf (talk · contribs) 13:45, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

@Cambalachero: Please respond. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 13:19, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm working on it. Cambalachero (talk) 16:59, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Done Cambalachero (talk) 18:43, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, this can be promoted now. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 01:58, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Top

Please try to also mention all the great things that ocurred during Menem's government, since there is a complete lack of information related to a 10 years period in this page and that is something unforgivable for a web site that wants to be a free encyclopedia. I give you some ideas about them: -Two sentences to prison for crimes committed by Menem and his ministers. -Annihilation of all the rail-road networks. -Treason to Peru. -Guns smuggling. Sentenced to prison. -Embezzlement. Sentenced to prison. -Highest unemployment levels in a century.

0 inflation after the 1000 points reached during Alfonsin period. Públic services at the best levels. Unemployement rate lowered after the Tequila. Tecnologie access (like something a bit important like satelite coms and internet). Power to the consumer. Access to the first world. 0 riots. Free press. Access to credit for the first time. Salaries comparable to the ones in Europe or the U.S. Reserves over 36 billion dollars after having 0 in the Central Bank. 250 billion dollars invested by international companies after having no incomes for 50 years. Access to first world quality products. Etc.

If there's something that Wikipedia should never be, it's being partial. When you say "all the great things he did", you are being partial. That you are one of his political followers does not mean the encyclopedia should also be a follower.

Indeed, anything that needs to be added in order to know more about Menem should be added. But not just the good things or the bad things (or only the things you think are good enough to add), but the important things. As long as they are facts.--Logariasmo 16:39, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That is all crap, there's nothing good he did. All those things you mention where just an illusion, which ruined the country's economy.

How obvius it is that all this trush is wirtten by argentinians. the good things or the bad???. How stupid and superficial waste of words. The first of you is stupid and have no idea about economics. The first of you is a pupil of the "dumm's guide to the 90's peronist" The one of you who sais crap is also wrong in that nothing was good. Come back to your country and stop doing shame on us. Ps: learn english!!!!! The article is allright, impartial and consistent.(leandro. buenos aires)

Leandro could also use some help with his English. And he seems to be lacking in the humility department. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.17.108.77 (talk) 04:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Calm down everybody. I have only observed Argentina from afar but this Menem artcle interested me after I remembered a glowing article from his early phase in office. National Georgraphic made him sound like Argentina's messiah at the time and even then I had an uneasy feeling because it was just one-eyed adoration.

Success or failure of Menem's policies are not measured by the little things mentioned above. He left office in 1999 and within 2 years his reforms produced riots, the IMF needed to be kicked out etc. The report card is what counts and Menem has not delivered for Argentinians: The proof of the pudding is in the eating. He's got a place of honour in Argentina's Museum of Debt, too. 58.174.193.29 (talk) 03:31, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

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:Corruption:---

It may be an idea to reflect upon the controversies surrounding the governments transfer of external debts held by private companies which according to Schamis 1999 was 79% of external debt consolidated focused on only 5% of all private debtors, not supprisingly some of the largest Argentinian companies. Cross fertilization of officials from large domestic conglomerate corporations into high ranking government positions. The actual privatization process which allowed for complete monopolistic purchase, by many of the same companies that had their external debts consolidated. Its funny that you don't have any academic citations

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That's right, I totally agree with this last opinion.

There were riots allright, Cutralco in the Argentine province of Neuquén in 1997, the rioting that took place during the visit of former President (U.S.) Clinton, etc.

There was no free press, remember Argentine reporter José Luis Cabezas was murdered by hitmen. I could go on and on...

---

Salaries comparable to the ones in Europe or the U.S? Which country is that.... Argentina? The social situation during his presidency provoked a rise of unemployment never seen before, working condition got even worse with the destruction of the unions, and the creation of new laws, which gave a total freedom to corporations to fire their employees, in order to make a more "flexible the market". While an average engineer in Argentina won u$s 2500 in the nineties if he wasn't driving a taxi, in the U.S. and Europe that was just a fraction of their income.

Reserves over 36 billion dollars after having 0 in the Central Bank. Because one peso on the street, it must had a dollar in the central bank. But that was just and illusion as Argentina asked to the IMF millions of dollars to maintain the reserves in the central bank. And it should have even more than that since it sold 90% of public companies to a ridiculous price. Where is that money? How it is possible to have just 36 billion dollars after having sell companies such as YPF and ENTEL and multiplied the external debt at the same time?

It is correct that Menem was not perfect, but we must not go to the other side and claim that everything he did was disastrous. For instance, the convertibility plan stopped the hyperinflation. That is a fact. Yes, keeping it for a decade had negative effects in the long run, but the initial benefit was real. Or the military: the presidential pardons are almost universally rejected; but the end of the conscription is not. Besides, it did work, under Menem the military ceased to be a group of power with influence over the civilian governments. Cambalachero (talk) 12:18, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Parents

His parents weren't Syrian nationals, they were Ottoman nationals from the region which is nowadays Syria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.141.238 (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The Turk

Anyone from "Middle East" (including Sephardim Jews) will be called Turk in Argentina. Delete nonsense about Mr. Julian. Ejrrjs | What? 18:51, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Current status of the article

It has been ruined to the point of no return. However, it is great to have the Menemtrucho image :-) Ejrrjs | What? 08:32, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Should we just revert to the last sensible edit or try to sift through the garbage hoping to find tidbits of useful information? —Seselwa 17:54, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ménem

If it is pronounced [ménem], why is it written Menem?

It is not a Spanish surname, but the transcription of an Arab one. Ejrrjs | What? 1 July 2005 20:46 (UTC)

Taqiyya

Why is the Menem article related to Taqiyya? (Shadowlight)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.151.12.8 (talk) 01:30, 29 March 2006