Talk:Came glasswork

Types of glass

Another small suggestion. Would the Wikipedia benefit from pages that contain definitions of the many types of glass? Examples would include "drapery glass" "stipple glass" "ring mottles" "cathedral glass" etc. These definitions might have their own pages. This level of detail might be unecessary, but I would like to throw the idea around for feedback. RogerJ 17:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

any reason why these glasses wouldn't benefit from their own individual dedicated articles?--Spartaz 17:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

They might just. Each type of glass has its own little history. I am bit nervous about creating new pages, but I'll figure it out. I'll start with making a page with about one type of glass. I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain to make sure that I've got the first page right, before I move on to others. RogerJ 17:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead. Try the manual of style for advice on format and just dive in. You know where my talk page is. --Spartaz 18

35, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Other Metal Cames

Cames are not just lead - some are zinc, some are copper. I'm sure that these other metals are newer types of came, but they aren't completely "modern." For example, most (but not all) of Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie style windows were done with copper came. When copper came is used, you can tint the lead solder at the joints to a matching copper color with a copper patina fluid, though I don't know if that's the method used on Wright's windows. I'm not sure how all of this should or could be added to the article, though.

Why not write an article about types of cames? The current page does not deal with history or past methods. RogerJ 19:01, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning in the "Adding Reinforcements" section that there is reinforced lead came (came with supporting metal already inside it) available too? I know as a hobbyist, the thought of adding bars to the outside of my piece is rather daunting...

220.253.17.65 04:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

External Example Link Not Working

Hello,

The example of reinforcement bars in the "Adding reinforcement bars" section is no longer working. Great wiki page otherwise.

220.253.17.65 04:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Rename article?

I suggest removing lead and copper from the title and instead mentioning it in the body. Came glasswork is made from a variety of materials, e.g. zinc, copper, lead, and perhaps others. The title is too specific and calls out two implementation details of cames that I don't feel belong in a title. The new title might be "Came Glasswork". Prosecreator (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 21:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC).

Content removed from the article to resolve the "how to" tag

Removed content - for potential Wikiversity, Wikibooks

Process Flowchart showing the steps in creation of both techniques Design and glass-cutting The first step for both techniques is to create a design on paper. This draft must consider constraints such as reduction of buckling risk, overall structural integrity, limiting the convergence of lead lines, and cuttability of each piece of glass within. The next step is to make a template copy of the design for cutting the glass. The width of the lead came or the copper foil that separates the pieces of glass may be compensated for with double blade pattern shears that remove a thin strip of material on the template copy. For large designs, a scale model may be made, which is digitally photographed and further modified with CAD software. After measurements and other notations are applied, the full pattern is printed on a large-format printer. The design is then transferred to the glass before it is cut. The glass is scored using a steel or carbide wheel glass cutter lubricated with cutting oil. Glass is broken at the score using breaker-grozier pliers, running pliers or built in groziers on a traditional glass cutter. This works because glass breaks along its weakest point when it bends. The ball end on many glass cutters is used to break complicated cuts in a piece of glass. Tapping the ball end along the score on the opposite side of the glass sends a vibration through the glass that helps it break along the score. Also, the notches in most basic glass cutters can be used to grab small bits of glass for breaking. An alternative to the cutting and grinding steps is the use of a ring saw or bandsaw. Such saws permit the cutting of shapes impossible with a wheel cutter. At this stage, the cut glass pieces have sharp edges and inaccuracies in their shape. The glazier can use an electric glass grinder with a diamond-coated grinding wheel to smooth the glass pieces, or a carborundum stone. Lead came technique The lead came has channels into which the glass pieces are inserted. There are two types of lead came: for the circumference of the design, came with a U-shaped cross section may be used, as it takes glass only on one of its sides. For the middle of the design, came with an H-shaped cross-section is used, taking glass on both its sides. The channel or "heart" height of lead came is available in different thickness to allow for thicker or thinner glass as well as the "face" (profile) in various sizes for design options and construction. Traditionally, lead came strips are stretched for straightening and stiffening using a lead vice attached at the edge of a work bench. The need for this is controversial. On one side there is a view that stiffening of the lead is crucial to achieve maximum lateral tensile strength to limit bowing of the window in the future and that the integrity of the lead is not compromised. However, it is the opinion of some practitioners that stretching is an undesirable practice as it might weaken, rather than strengthen, the lead. Lead came is available in 5–6 foot pieces and on dispensing rolls for smaller gauge lead. Lead came is commonly cut with lead dikes or glazing knife. Table top chop saws are also used where repetitive sized pieces are needed or when working with a zinc based lead or zinc came. Cut lead came is also done in angles to allow for proper mitering where the stained glass design requires it. Schematic cross-section drawing of two glass pieces embedded in three lead came pieces: 1 - U-shaped came; 2 - H-shaped came; 3 - glass Each piece of glass is set in place upon a glazing drawing, with came shaped around it to make a matrix. Horseshoe nails and scraps of lead are used to hold the already-assembled pieces to the work surface. Horseshoe nails are used because the steel is not tempered, and therefore has less chance of breaking the edge of a piece of glass. Sometimes on a delicate piece, a scrap of lead will cushion the glass from the nail. The glass and lead are assembled gradually, beginning from one corner of the work, and building-up away from it. The ends of the came are tucked under the ears of the other lead it meets. The lead came is soldered at the joints between strips with lead/tin solder. This is in contrast to the copper foil method, where the whole length of the copper strip is soldered. 50/50 creates a flat bead, best used for tight lead joints and a base for copperfoil work. 60/40 creates a high bead, most commonly used for copperfoil work. It can be used on came but is not recommended. The final step is applying a waterproofing putty made of linseed oil and calcium carbonate (commercial whiting). The glazing compound is worked into the space between the glass and lead, to strengthen and waterproof the work. Lastly, the ears are pressed down against the glass, securing the piece and further waterproofing the panel. Whiting is reapplied to window sparingly for cleaning and removing excess oils left from cementing. Lead's malleability and ease of soldering make it perfect for the stained glass art. However, lead is one of the heaviest metals, so stained glass panels can be very heavy. One of these sections alone can easily weigh 80 pounds (36 kg) and use a matrix of 7 bars in some examples. Because of this, the original installer included copper wires soldered onto the window to be twisted around bars set into the frame. These round bars and wires help carry the weight and prevent buckling, a potentially fatal problem for stained glass windows. The copper wire method is obsolete now, though still used in historical preservation. A modern technique involves soldering a flat bar perpendicular to the window. The ends of this bar are set into the frame and prevent deflection. A lead came window that buckled because of lack of reinforcement bars Front view of the buckled window shown on the left Copper foil technique Copper-foil glasswork connects pre-cut pieces of glass by wrapping their edges with adhesive copper tape, then soldering the copper-wrapped edges together. It is commonly called the "Tiffany" stained glass method. The steps of the copper foil process are: The edges of the glass pieces are wrapped in copper foil. This is similar to the lead came method, where the edges are inserted into the came channels. The foil is then burnished onto all three glass surfaces using a burnishing tool, such as a fid or basic, to ensure there are no gaps between the foil and the glass. Flux is applied to all visible copper sparingly. The copper-wrapped glass pieces are soldered together. A bead of solder is run across every spot of visible copper foil, in contrast with the lead came method, where only the came edges called "joints" are soldered together. A finishing patina is applied to emphasize details or to quickly achieve the natural black patina that all lead develops with age. Glass pieces wrapped with copper foil, before soldering Soldering the copper foil wrapped pieces The finished work, after tinting with dark patina The partly assembled jar; some of the broken pieces are still separate, wrapped with the copper-foil The fully soldered jar The jar back in the vending machine, with the solder give an "antique black" finish or "patina" Copper foil glasswork Hanukkah menora Comparison of methods One of the advantages of copper-foil glasswork over lead-strip glasswork is that one can assemble the glass pieces in three-dimensional shapes when soldering them together. Lead-strip enables the creation of only two-dimensional panes. However lead came has been used vey often to create 3 dimensional works of art. Many Tiffany style lamps have been made using only lead (and glass) by assembling either flat on a work bench then bent into shape or built from the base up in sections.

Put it here in the event it could be used elsewhere.--CaroleHenson (talk) 23:48, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

References

Came and came glasswork articles

I'm working on both the Came and Came glasswork article. The Came article probably won't be expanded too much, but there's still a fair amount of work to do on the Came glasswork article - completing information about the various forms of came - and how that affects the project. A history section was mentioned in one of the talk comments - which makes a lot of sense, too. As an FYI, the purpose of the changes to the Came glasswork article are due to the how-to and one source tags that were placed on the article.--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:09, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts here, it has needed doing for some time. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:02, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure! It's becoming even more interesting than I imagined.--CaroleHenson (talk) 10:11, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

I've finished my major initial pass. It could use some copy-editing, but I'll be much better at that after a day or so. I started a history section, but got a little lost, not wanting to recreate the history sections in the Leadlight and Medieval stained glass articles.

There are missing citations in a couple of places that had previously been in the article - and if someone knows the source that would be great!

I'm thinking it would also be good to get input from people who know about the topic more intimately - for instance, much of the wording (like the overview) is based upon construction of a panel - I tried to leave out too many particulars so that it would be a fairly encompassing overview. I'm guessing, though, that it may need tweaks. Any help would be greatly appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:30, 5 September 2012 (UTC)