Talk:Caesar salad/Archive 3

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"Letchworth" edit war

Needs to stop. Some verification by reliable sources needs to be presented if this content is to be included in the article. Present those sources or let it go already. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:03, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

And, a year later, it is being added again along with a whole new section header in order to list supposed regional variation from Australia and New Zealand, again with no sources. There are literally thousands of different ways one can make this salad, a place in my hometown adds carrot, avocado, and blackened fish and serves it in a fried tortilla. Another joint here in town has a super garlicky version they call "the black hole Caesar." The possibilities are endless and we cannot and should not try to document them all, instead relying on the more stable version of the article that defines broad categories of variations, such as adding grilled meat or varying the type of greens. Comments here would be much better than edit warring, I'll leave it to consensus to decide which way we swing on this, but I really don't think we should even have a "regional variations" section, and there is no evidence that the so-called "Letchworth" is a widely known name for simply adding tomatoes to it. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:17, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Hear hear. I just consulted this entry and the critics are right. This is less and less about the actual Caesar Salad. and the photo is a travesty, suggesting that there IS NO "true" Caesar salad. That is patently disingenuous. I ate at Caesar Cardini's in Tijuana in 1959, and it was the same at-the-table presentation as ever, with coddled eggs (not raw, not integrated into the sauce) and anchovies. I accept that the latter may not have been part of the original concept, but by the 50s (Remember, I was there) they were integral.

Sorry, I'm not adept enough to put this testimony in the proper format, but you'd be a fool to ignore it.Josephbyrd (talk) 03:17, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Grilled caesar?

Is this really a variation worth noting? Shouldn't there be a photo for every possible variation of salad, if we're going to include this obscure nonsense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.177.81.237 (talk) 12:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Having a photo of one of the thousands of possible variations does not mean we have to have a photo for all of them, not sure why anyone would think that. I'm also unclear why you call it nonsense. It is an unusual variation to be sure, but I think it demonstrates that this simple dish has been used by chefs as a canvass for new ideas. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:03, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Looking at your comment above regarding "Letchworth," I would say this falls under the same category. I can't remember for sure, but I may have been motivated to remove the photo in part because of the argument against uncommon variations. I have no idea what the edit wars were about, but can you provide any verification by reliable sources that grilled caesar is, as you said above, widely known? I submit that grilled caesar is not a real variation of this salad, and certainly not a widely known one. There are no sources listed in the article to lend any credence to its existence; in fact, "grilled caesar" is mentioned nowhere in the text of the article proper. By my understanding, the photo should be removed unless reliable sources are cited (WP:BURDEN). If you're interested, I think it's nonsense because, in my experience, heat causes leaves to wilt, and wilted leaves are not good to eat.66.177.81.237 (talk) 07:46, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

You are comparing apples and oranges. Adding every possible variation to the article text is what the above section is about. That would obviously be a bad idea as it would bloat the article without making it more informative, and it would almost certainly involve WP:OR. Having a photograph of one unusual variation, along with other images showing more mainstream versions demonstrates rather nicely that this is a highly adaptadle dish. We don't need to provide a source for a photograph of something to prove that it is real, unless you are arguing that the person who took the photo is fabricating information about what it is a photograph of I don't see the problem. In my years as a cook I have seen some chefs dream up warm or hot salads with somewhat wilted greens in them. Not my cup of tea but it is done sometimes. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:29, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

International presence?

While the Caesar salad originated in Mexico and/or USA (and is now a commonly-served side/main dish in the latter), is this salad popular (or even offered) in other countries? It appears there have been discussions concerning this topic- but not obvious from the current article or talk.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dosware (talk • contribs) 03:05, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Giacomo Junia - 1903 - Chicago.

True or not (or truth never be known), isn't this worth mention? Webster dictionary even claimed the caesar salad was developed in chicago in 1903. Hundreds of mentions of it on the internet.

In George Leonard Herter's Book the Bull Cook and Authentic Historical Recipes and Practices VOL ll he talks about who he thinks invented Caesar salad.

"Caesar salad was invented in about 1903 by Giacomo Junia, an Italian cook in Chicago, Illinois. Giacomo Junia was the cook in a small restaurant called The New York Cafe. He catered to American tastes as spaghetti and pizza in those days were little eaten by anyone including Italians. It is sometimes falsely stated that this salad was invented in Tijuana, Mexico during the prohibition period and also in San Francisco. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only thing invented in Tijuana were the finest methods every produced to clip tourists.

Giacomo Junia called the salad Caesar Salad. He put a few pieces of Cos lettuce (romaine) in the salad to add a slightly bitter touch to it. . . Giacomo called the salad Caesar Salad after Julius Caesar, the greatest Italian of all time. . . . Junia never thought that the salad would be popular and was more surprised than anyone when people began to ask for it. Many itinerant cooks learned how to make the salad and soon it was made all over North America and even in Europe." Just a few random hits after googling it, obviously you can google it yourself and find hundreds more. http://www.imafoodblog.com/index.php/2009/02/16/what-is-caesar-salad-where-is-it-from https://books.google.com/books?id=I5FVn9EjHH0C&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=Giacomo+Junia+chicago+caesar&source=bl&ots=J0dtoDs6GH&sig=2pOl4-A3howSsVwM3p1OQK0j6Tk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBmoVChMIyKiv7a-JxgIVSyesCh3m5gCw#v=onepage&q=Giacomo%20Junia%20chicago%20caesar&f=false http://tdn.com/mobile/article_9ae18a20-ee74-11e2-a511-0019bb2963f4.html https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=20030923&id=k4lIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hnADAAAAIBAJ&pg=5320,3255132&hl=en https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=20030730&id=4GhWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vfIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6222,7043578&hl=en http://peapod.typepad.com/blog/2010/02/who-created-the-first-caesar-salad.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.70.86 (talk) 05:06, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

"Ceasar"

After the alternative spellings, I added "frequently misspelled as Ceasar". Google will correct your spelling, but, undoubtedly, many have seen this spelling on restaurant menus. If it seems worthwhile, keep it; if not, revert it. I don't want to dignify the error by elaborating on it either in the article or in the talk page. Roches (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

kinda weird to make a preemptive talk page post about how you don't want to discuss your edit, but for the record, I reverted it since it was unsourced, and is already a redirect. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:54, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Salmonella risk

Given that the risk of salmonella is now negligable in countries (such as UK) shouldn't salmonella be specified "in some countries" (unsigned by 82.27.161.226)

It seems that the "Health concerns" aren't specific to this topic and apply to "Egg as food" in general. The whole section could probably be substituted with a "see also link", etc.

For now, I added {{Main|Egg_as_food#Contamination}}

I think the "Caesar vinaigrette" really should be noted in the variations section; Because there are commercially available products for this variation I think it's fair to infer that it must be a "more" common variety. It appears that this variation is/was sometimes called "Golden Caesar" (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxFQh0KvEM0 this youtube video of TV ad. This name might not be especially current but it is at least historically relevant information and I think it should be mentioned in this article since there's not enough substance for a separate article about non-eggbassed Caesar salads.

I added a ref for recipes an example that use mayonnaise, noted that using that retail may is pasteurized, and removed oil and vinegar since oil is normal and the addition of vinegar is never intended to increase the pH enough to kill salmonella.

The ref I added was https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/14172/caesar-salad-supreme/ (it was the first google result when I searched "caesar salad"). I'm not current with the convention among wikipedians for web refs. I'll familiarize myself, but if, in the meantime, anyone is willing to update my notation, it would be appreciated.

135.23.238.2 (talk) 11:28, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

"Often prepared tableside"

In this day an age? I have never seen a restaurant that serves it prepare it tableside, and it is an extremely common menu item in north America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Surement (talk • contribs) 00:18, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Late reply: I would characterize it as a fading tradition. Some high-end or very old-school establishments still do this, but tableside preparation as a concept has gotten much rarer in recent times. Another part of it would be that very few kitchens are even doing the dressing to order and are instead either making it beforehand or buying it bottled. There wouldn't be much point to having a server come out and show you how they poured a bottle onto some lettuce, but if prepared in the original style it would still be a good show. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:35, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

@Beeblebrox: I changed the updated version from "It was originally prepared tableside." to "In its original form, this salad was prepared and served tableside." just for style. "Often" would be an inaccurate reading of the source. "Traditionally", or "originally" are correct and it's good relevant information. However, stylistically, I'm thinking that this info could be worked into the history section as opposed to intro. 135.23.238.2 (talk) 11:28, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Unofficially, having eaten and worked at many restaurants in NYC, and also observing colloquial usage: The primary unalterable expectation is a salad of Romaine Lettuce Leaves (which many probably assume (erroneously) to be the source of the name) and a dressing resembling a thinner tangy Mayonnaise (a bit as for Cole Slaw). Everything else seems to be mutable. Often served with some strips of grilled fish, beef, or chicken as a topping, making it an entree.

People are always surprised or shocked that raw eggs are an ingredient, but raw eggs, olive oil and lemon juice are the basic ingredients for Mayonnaise.

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